〔访谈〕巧遇张国荣

出处：2008.05 《THE LAST STAR OF EAST 永远的林青霞》

作者：铁屋彰子（Akiko Tetsuya，日本）

翻译：栗筱雯

出版：大块文化

英文版：2005年《The Last Star of the East: Brigitte Lin Ching Hsia and Her Films》

简体版：2009年 上海锦绣文章出版社《永远的林青霞》

繁体版《THE LAST STAR OF EAST 永远的林青霞》封面。

巧遇张国荣

【我头一次访问林青霞后过了两年，一九九九年四月我又与她碰面，谈了大概一个钟头，采访结束时我要求另找时间再做一次访问。她不怎么愿意，至少我认为她有些为难，但最后她还是答应到一家饭店的咖啡厅和我碰面。我在那儿等她的时候，有个戴墨镜的男子走了进来。我知道他是张国荣。难道林青霞也邀了他吗？十分钟后林青霞来了，于是我指给她看，张国荣正坐在角落的桌位。她走过去，两人聊了几分钟。我对她说：“我好兴奋哦，因为你在这头，张国荣在那头。”“哦，你想见见他吗？我去问问。”】

林青霞：你想不想采访他？或者照张相？

铁屋彰子：如果可能的话，两者都想。

林青霞：你想和张国荣合照吗？

铁屋彰子：不是的，我是想替你俩合照一张。【拍完照后，我把录音机摆在张国荣面前】我能问你一些问题吗？

张国荣：好啊，除了私事，什么都可以问。

铁屋彰子：我想了解一下你和青霞之间的友谊。二位合作之前，你认识她吗？我指的是私交。

张国荣：当然认识。因为她是个大明星呀，我怎么可能不认识她呢？从她的第一部作品起，我就好喜欢她了。她是东方的美人。【张国荣又用日语说了同样的话：“亚洲的美人。”】你懂我意思吧？

铁屋彰子：我懂。人们称她是“女神”。

林青霞：国荣是最英俊的男人。

铁屋彰子：大家都说你的样子从来没变。我在今年的香港国际电影节欣赏《柠檬可乐》（1982）时，在场观众都赞叹你一点儿也没变。

张国荣：嗯，你必须永远保有一颗年轻的心。我需要做脸部拉皮吗？不必。我需要用五百块美金的保养品吗？不用。只要心情永葆年轻，而且胸怀目标……要有热情。这样的人会想做些美好的事情，你懂吧？当然啦，有事也需要好好休息一段时间，对不对？放个大假。工作的时候，你只有全心投入了。

铁屋彰子：你与青霞合作的第一部电影是《白发魔女传》。

张国荣：《白发魔女传》并不是我们首次合作的电影。

铁屋彰子：哦，我老是把《东邪西毒》（1994）和《射雕英雄传之东成西就》（1993）的时间搞混。

林青霞：《东邪西毒》比较晚吧？

铁屋彰子：不，先拍的是《东邪西毒》，至于二位合作的第一部戏，我想应该是《射雕英雄传之东成西就》。【《东邪西毒》早在一九九二年十月就开镜了，因为王家卫无法赶在一九九三年农历春节前及时杀青，他的朋友兼《东》片监制之一刘镇伟便代他执导《射》片。刘找了《东》片原班人马去拍《射》片。】

张国荣：所以我们一共合作了四次呢。

林青霞：四次？

铁屋彰子：对，第四部是《白发魔女传Ⅱ》（1993）。

林青霞：我老是忘了有这一部。

铁屋彰子：就我所知，青霞出任狼女这个角色之前，原本的人选还是杨紫琼。后来杨紫琼辞演，去拍《现代豪侠传》。当时的经过如何？

张国荣：我想，一开始是敲定由杨紫琼饰演白发魔女没错。可是你知道这个是为什么吗？不是因为青霞不受重视，而是当时她实在太红、片约太多了。她在南韩发展得也非常顺利。人人抢着找她拍戏。有人告诉我，在那段时间里，她是全香港和全亚洲片酬最高的女星。她忙到不可开交。没人敢开口问她是否有空在香港拍片，因为她手上的片约有五、六部。

铁屋彰子：对，当时情况的确如此。

张国荣：也许他们认为我和青霞合作可能会很不错吧。我也不晓得是谁提议的……

林青霞：黄百鸣。【黄百鸣是《白发魔女传》的制片之一。】

张国荣：所以，也许是黄百鸣在这个圈子里呆很久了，我想他基于这等交情才敢邀请青霞加入演出阵容。我认为这很好。非常好的决定。

铁屋彰子：没错，我很喜欢那部电影。感官效果很强。

张国荣：没错。

林青霞：国荣提出不少好点子，让电影加分不少。

铁屋彰子：听说拍戏时没有剧本，只有剧情梗概。

林青霞：有剧本的。

铁屋彰子：哦，真的呀？二位合作之前，彼此在私底下很熟吗？

林青霞：完全不熟。

张国荣：不过我与她有数面之缘。

林青霞：对，我们见过几次。

张国荣：【张国荣对林青霞说】你来过我的演唱会吗？有哦？她来过我的演唱会，所以我们算是有点交情吧。

林青霞：点头之交。在我们合作拍戏之前，他在我生日时送了蛋糕。

张国荣：我都忘了。

铁屋彰子：我看过照片。听说你为了拍《白发魔女传》，得在晚上拍戏，因为当时正好是夏天。拍片过程很辛苦吗？

林青霞：没那么糟啦，因为整部片子都是在晚上拍的。白天太湿热。不过，一到晚上气温就降下来了，所以还好。天候状况不错。夜里挺凉爽的。

铁屋彰子：关于森林里的激情戏，你们事先讨论过吗？还是全凭直觉演出？

林青霞：国荣帮了我很多。

张国荣：我们事先讨论过要怎么演，我说，激情戏一定要够激情，否则就没有意义了。全凭直觉去演，效果不会太好。“不行的”【林青霞用日语说】这句日文我还晓得。

铁屋彰子：青霞也同意这么做吗？

林青霞：那场戏国荣帮了我很多。

张国荣：我想青霞是信任我的吧。

铁屋彰子：这点非常重要……

林青霞：那段时间我们都住在香港会展广场的会景阁。有时我们搭同一班保姆车去外景现场。路程很远。我们在车上会聊聊天。那一阵子我非常疲倦，感情方面也出了一些问题，聊着聊着，我就哭了。眼泪大颗大颗得掉。国荣呢，就这样拍拍我的背。【林青霞作势在张国荣身上拍了拍】

铁屋彰子：他安慰你。

林青霞：他说：“我会好好对待你的。”我好感动。我告诉自己，他会成为我的好朋友。永远都是我的朋友。

铁屋彰子：你是不是常打麻将？香港报纸老是写你打牌，不是和青霞一道就是和王菲。

张国荣：我？没有吧。

林青霞：他没那么常打牌，偶尔玩玩罢了。他反应好快。我们都跟不上他的速度。

张国荣：我跟你说，你晓得我为什么喜欢打麻将吗？不是为了赌博。我不怎么喜欢赌。我喜欢打麻将，因为要用脑经。我喜欢打快一点，因为我喜欢那种同时会有不同状况发生、让你产生下意识动作的游戏，你懂我的意思吗？我打起麻将来总是……

林青霞：总是快的不得了。他的反应一流。每人跟的上他。

铁屋彰子：他打牌一向是赢家吗？

林青霞：他一向都是赢家。

张国荣：哪里，没有啦。

林青霞：大都是你赢嘛。

铁屋彰子：你们合作的第二部电影是《东邪西毒》。这是一出大制作，找了七个大明星联合演出。

张国荣：这部戏花了很多时间和心血才完成。人力、物力、财力，还有很多其他的。

铁屋彰子：【我对张国荣说】你有很多场戏都没有派上用场，全给留在剪片室的地板上了。

张国荣：我并不意外，拍王家卫的戏一向如此。这是他的作风。如果你想和他合作，就得接受他的这种拍法。我并不特别赞成，却也没表示过意见，因为他总是有办法创造出神奇的东西。他就是这样子，标准的王家卫风格。

铁屋彰子：对你而言，林青霞是什么人？

张国荣：她是什么人？她是我非常要好的朋友，心地善良又美丽。她现在日子比较轻松了，我很替她高兴。因为她嫁了人以后，就不必像以前那样辛苦拍片。你晓得吗，她从来没说过她退休了，但其实她已处于退休状态。这样很好。我的意思是说，我发现她比以前快乐多了。

铁屋彰子：若把林青霞当成普通人看，你对她有何看法？

张国荣：我再也不把她当成明星了。其实以前也没当她是明星。和我演对手戏的那女演员，我总是想好好对待他们。我很用心。放开自我。打开心胸接纳对方。我有很强的直觉。我第一眼见到对方，便知道他/她是否能成为我的朋友。所以我想，我把青霞当成可以做朋友的人。我对她从不说谎。我没必要骗她，而且我跟她合作无间。

铁屋彰子：你们的友谊像手足之情吗？有时候男女之间很难产生友谊的。

张国荣：不会，我和她做朋友没什么困难的，完全没有。我们知道彼此的立场，对于各自的想法也很清楚，纯粹只想当朋友。这是最重要的事。

English Version

An Unexpected Meeting with Leslie Cheung

Akik:铁屋彰子

Brigitte:林青霞

Leslie: 张国荣

It’s been two years since I first interviewed Brigitte. In April of 1999, after I met with her for about one hour, I asked for another interview. She was reluctant, or at least I thought so, but finally she agreed to see me in a hotel coffee shop. While I was waiting for her, a man with sunglasses came into the coffee shop. I knew he was Leslie Cheung. Did she invite him? Ten minutes later she arrived, so I gestured to her that Leslie was at the corner table. She walked over to him and they talked for a few minutes. I told her, “I’m nervous because you are here and Leslie is there.” “Oh, do you want to meet him? Okay, I’ll ask him,” She said.

Brigitte: Do you want to interview him? Or take a picture?

Akik: Both, if it’s possible.

Brigitte: Do you want to take a picture with Leslie and you?

Akik: No, I want to take a picture of both of you. (After I took the pictures, I placed the tape recorder in front of him) Can I ask you some questions?

Leslie: You can, anything except private things.

Akik: My interest is in your friendship with Brigitte. Before you worked with her, did you know her? I mean personally.

Leslie: Of course I knew of her. Because she is such a big star, how can I not know of her? Since her first movie, I liked her so much. She is the beauty of the Orient. (He told me the same thing in Japanese. “Ajia no bi ne”.) You understand?

Akik: Yes, I understand. People called her a goddess.

Brigitte: He is the most handsome guy.

Akik: Everybody says you haven’t changed. When I saw Teenage Dreamers(1982) at this year’s Hong Kong International Film Festival, people said you haven’t changed.

Leslie: Well, you need to always be young at heart. That’s my recipe. Do I have to pull or lift my face? No. Do I need to have US$500 worth of moisturizer? No. It’s just that you always have to be young at heart and you have to have a goal…have some passion. You want to do something good you know? And of course sometimes you need to have a lot of good relaxation time. Right? Good holidays. Then when you work you really have to have the heart to get into the work.

Brigitte: And honesty and sincerity.

Akik: The first movie that you worked on with Brigitte was The Bride with White Hair.

Leslie: The Bride with White Hair was not our first movie together.

Akik: Oh, I’m always confused about when Ashes of Time (1994) and The Eagle Shooting Heroes (1993) were made.

Brigitte: Ashes of Time is the Second one?

Akik: No, that was the first one to start shooting but as for actually working together is was, I think, The Eagle Shooting Heroes. (The shooting of Ashes of Time began around late October or early November of 1992. Because Wong Kar Wai couldn’t finish the film in time for the Chinese New Year 1993, his friend and one of the producers of Ashese of Time, Jeff Lau, directed Eagle Shooting Heroes instead. He used the same cast as Ashes of Time.)

Leslie: So we worked together four times.

Brigitte: Four?

Akik: Yes, the four one is The Bride with White Hair II (1992).

Brigitte: I always forget that.

Akik: I know that before Brigitte was cast as a wolf woman, Michelle Yeoh was supposed to do the role. Then Michelle quit to do Executioners(1993). How was the project going?

Leslie: Well I think that it was decided to use Michelle for that role at first. But you know why? It’s not because Brigitte was being neglected. It’s because she was so popular during that time and she was working so hard. She was also very successful in South Korea. So everybody was grabbing her to do movies. I’ve been told during that time she was the highest salaried woman in Hong Kong and Asia. She was so busy. Nobody would dare to ask her, you know, if she was able to work on a movie in Hong Kong, because she had five or six movies in her hand.

Akik: Yes, at that time.

Leslie: Maybe they thought that I could possibly work quite well with her. So I don’t know who proposed…

Brigitte: Wong Bak Ming. (Raymond Wong Bak Ming is one of the producers of The Bride with White Hair.)

Leslie: So maybe Wong Bak Ming has been in show business so long, I think it’s out of friendship that he can invite her to come and join us. Which is, I think, good. A good decision.

Akik: Yes, I like that movie a lot. And it’s very sensual too.

Leslie: Sensual, right.

Brigitte: Leslie gave a lot of good ideas to make the movie better.

Akik: I heard there wasn’t a . They only had a synopsis.

Brigitte: They had a .

Akik: Oh, really? Before you worked together, did you personally know each other well?

Brigitte: No. Not at all.

Leslie: But I met her on several occasions.

Brigitte: Yes, a few times.

Leslie: (To Brigitte) Did you ever come to one of my concerts? You did? She came to my concert, right? So it’s like a friend…

Brigitte: Acquaintance. Before we worked together, he gave me a birthday cake on my birthday. (That was on the press day for Ashes of Time: November 3, 1992)

Leslie: I forgot about that.

Akik: I saw the pictures. I heard that you had to do shooting at night for The Bride with White Hair because it was summertime. Was it mostly horrible?

Leslie: It wasn’t too bad because the whole movie was shot at night. The daytime was rather hot and humid. But you know in the evening it cooled down, so it was all right. The weather was okay. It was pretty cool at night.

Akik: For the love scenes in the forest, did you talk about them before shooting or just do it spontaneously?

Brigitte: He helped me a lot.

Leslie: Yes, we talked about what we would do and I said the love scene had to be very steamy. Otherwise it was pointless to do a love scene. Being spontaneous would not have been good. “Dame” (In Japanese, “no good”) I know that word.

Akik: And you agreed.

Brigitte: He helped a lot with that scene.

Leslie: I think she trusts me.

Akik: That’s very important…

Brigitte: You know it’s a pattern thing. I always said that. By the time we worked together we were staying in the same apartment complex, the Convention Plaza Apartments. Sometimes we took the same van to get to the location. It was a long drive. We had conversations, because at that time I was so tired and had some problems with a relationship, we talked to each other and I cried. And he just did, like this. (She gestured to pat him on the back.)

Akik: Comforted you.

Brigitte: He said, “I’ll treat you well no matter what.” I was so touched. And I told myself, he’s gonging to be my friend. Forever.

Akik: Did you play mahjong a lot? The Hong Kong newspapers always reported that you played mahjong with either her or Faye Wong.

Leslie: Me? Not really.

Brigitte: Not many. A few times. But he’s great. His reaction is so fast. We couldn’t catch, we couldn’t follow him.

Leslie: You know why I like that game? It’s not because of gambling. I don’t particulary like to gamble. It’s just that, you know, when you play mahjong, it works the mind. I like to play fast because I like to have that simultaneous, spontaneous thing, you know? I always play very…

Brigitte: So fast. His reactions are so fast. Nobody can follow him.

Akik: Does he always win?

Brigitte: Always.

Leslie: No. Not always.

Brigitte: Most of time.

Akik: The next movie was Ashes of Time. That was really big project and there were seven big stars in it.

Leslie: It consumed a lot of time and sweat. Lots of things like that.

Akik: And you did many scenes that they didn’t use. They ended up on the cutting room floor.

Leslie: I’m not surprised, it’s always like that. That’s Wong Kar Wai’s style. If you want to work with him, you have to accept that this is his style. I don’t particulary agree with it, but I don’t give any objections either, because somehow he will create some magic. That’s him. That’s his style.

Akik: For you, who is Brigitte Lin?

Leslie: Who is she? She is a very good friend of mine. Kind-hearted. Beautiful. I’m glad she is more relaxed now. Because she’s married, she doesn’t have to work like before. You know, she didn’t say she’s retired, but actually she is. So this is good. I mean that I’ve found her to be happier than she was before.

Akik: What about as a human being. What was your perspective of her?

Leslie: I don’t treat her as an actress anymore. I never really did. I always want to treat my colleagues when they play against me as an artist or an actress. I will use my heart. Give yourself up. Open your heart to accept this person. Just know, I have a very strong instinct. I know whether he or she can be my friend from first sight. So I think I count Brigitte as one that I can be friends with. I never tell her lies. I don’t have to tell lies to her, and we work very well together.

Akik: Your friendship is like a sibling relationship? Sometimes it’s difficult for men and women to have a friendship.

Leslie: No, I don’t have difficulties with her friendship. Not at all. We know where we stand and we are very clear minded and the intention is just to be friends. That’s the most important thing.

以上资料转自：

https://m.sohu.com/a/145641834_319433