MICHAEL MAGUIRE专访（中英翻译）

2023-06-13 23:28 作者:访客707 0人读过 | 我要投稿

原文章链接：https://www.superlawyers.com/articles/california/to-dream-a-dream-of-family-law/

家庭法之梦

To Dream a Dream of Family Law

作为迈克尔·L·马奎尔律师事务所的创始人，迈克尔·L·马奎尔致力于为南加州的客户服务。他主要从事家庭法方面的工作，接手的案件种类繁多，包括高资产离婚、合法分居、财产分割、子女抚养费、亲子诉讼及家庭暴力等。

As the founder of The Law Offices of Michael L. Maguire & Associates, Michael L. Maguire is dedicated to serving clients in Southern California. He focuses his practice on family law, accepting a wide variety of cases including high-asset divorce, legal separation, property division, child support, paternity actions and domestic violence.

涉及名人离婚、子女监护权或其他家庭法问题的案件可能变得微不足道。由于这些情况的情绪化性质，一个人谁没有律师的指导，最终可能会作出不幸的决定，他或她的未来。凭借多年处理家庭法案件的经验，马奎尔先生致力于帮助客户解决这些问题，为即使是最具挑战性的情况制定独特的解决方案。

Cases involving celebrity divorce, child custody or other family law issues can become tenuous. Due to the emotionally-charged nature of these circumstances, an individual who does not have the guidance of an attorney may end up making unfortunate decisions regarding his or her future. With years of experience handling family law cases, Mr. Maguire commits his practice to helping clients navigate these issues, crafting unique solutions for even the most challenging situations.

马圭尔先生于一九七七年在欧柏林学院取得哲学硕士，并于一九八○年在密歇根大学取得歌剧音乐硕士学位。在他的歌唱生涯中，马圭尔先生在百老汇演出了许多节目，并赢得了托尼奖的表现，在 Les Miserables。他也有一个非常成功的职业生涯在音乐会舞台上演唱，与300多个主要交响乐世界各地之前，决定返回学校学习法律。2008年，他完成了为期两年的西南大学法学院加速项目 SCALE，并获得了法学博士学位。

Mr. Maguire earned a Bachelor of Arts from Oberlin College in 1977 and went on to earn a Master of Music in opera from the University of Michigan in 1980. During his singing career, Mr. Maguire performed in numerous shows on Broadway and won the Tony Award for his performance in the show Les Miserables. He also had a very successful career performing on the concert stage, singing with over 300 major symphonies around the world before deciding to return to school to study the law. He received his Juris Doctor in 2008 after completing the SCALE program, an accelerated two-year program at Southwestern Law School.

马奎尔先生自愿为社区提供法律技能，并为哈里特布海家庭法中心贡献了时间。他是加利福尼亚州律师协会、洛杉矶县律师协会和比华利山别墅律师协会的成员。此外，马奎尔先生最近在加州西南大学法学院担任家庭法副教授。

Volunteering his legal skills to the community, Mr. Maguire has contributed time to the Harriett Buhai Center for Family Law. He is a member of The State Bar of California as well as the Los Angeles County Bar Association and the Beverly Hills Bar Association. In addition, Mr. Maguire recently became an adjunct professor on family law in California at Southwestern Law School.

迈克尔·马奎尔因在百老汇原创剧《 Les Miserables 》中领导一场失败的革命而获得托尼奖，现在他帮助那些婚姻失败的人

Michael Maguire won a Tony for leading a failed revolution in the original Broadway production of Les Miserables; now he helps those with failed marriages

发表于2013年《南加州新星》杂志

Published in 2013 Southern California Rising Stars magazine

作者: Erik Lundegaard 2013年6月13日

By Erik Lundegaard on June 13, 2013

问: 你在百老汇原创剧《 Les Miserables 》中扮演安灼拉获得了托尼奖。你在全国各地演奏交响乐。所以我不得不问: 为什么是法律？

Q: You won a Tony for playing Enjolras in the original Broadway production of Les Miserables. You perform with symphonies all over the country. So I have to ask: Why law?

答：我想上法学院好几年了。我只是想要智力上的挑战。我是说，我知道我有生理上的天赋。这就像是一个跑得很快的人。我有一种天赋，我需要而且仍然需要分享。

A: I wanted to go to law school for years. I just wanted the intellectual challenge. I mean, I do recognize that I have a physical gift. It’s almost like being a fast runner or something. I have a talent that I needed and still need to share.

但是当我用交响乐演唱的时候，我也在购买和修复洛杉矶汉考克公园的老房子。我喜欢历史修复。我靠这个赚了不少钱。但是市场在2005年对我来说开始看起来疲软，我想，“如果我要去法学院，我应该在我太老和懒惰之前就去做。”

But while I was singing with symphonies, I was also buying and restoring old houses in Hancock Park in Los Angeles. I love historic restoration. I made good money doing that. But the market started looking soft to me in 2005 and I thought, “If I’m ever going to go to law school I should do it right now before I’m just too old and lazy to do it.”

我有点幸运，因为我没有参加法学院入学考试的课程，但我设法进入了西南大学的规模计划。开始的三四个月是非常艰难的——从整天无所事事到上法学院的转变——但我最终还是喜欢上了它。我喜欢这种挣扎，喜欢这种乐趣，喜欢这种痛苦。

I was kind of lucky because I didn’t take an LSAT course but I managed to get into Southwestern’s SCALE program. It was very difficult, the first three or four months—the transition of going from just goofing around all day to law school—but I ultimately loved it. I just loved the struggle, and the fun of it, and the pain.

问: 为什么是家庭法？

Q: And why family law?

答：我离婚的时候闹得很不愉快。在那次离婚过程中，我开始意识到我的律师正在向我收取巨额费用，因为我基本上是在重复我告诉他们的话。或者他们在检查一些我本可以检查的东西。他们不像我那样了解数字，因为在进入剧院之前，我是华尔街的一名经纪人。我的生命中有一个使命，一直持续到今天，就是阻止其他人经历这些。

A: I had a nasty divorce. During the course of that divorce, I started recognizing that my attorneys were billing me a tremendous amount of money for basically regurgitating what I told them. Or they were checking boxes that I could have checked. And they didn’t understand numbers like I did because I’d been a broker on Wall Street prior to going into the theater. I just had a mission in my life, and it continues to this day, to try to keep other people from going through that.

问: 你是怎么做到的？

Q: How do you do that?

答: 关键是我的服务要尽可能具有成本效益。老实告诉他们，他们得到想要的东西的机会有多大。努力帮助他们认识到，有时候你能做的最好的事情就是尽快完成这个过程，而不是为了一辆5000美元的车而花费50000美元。

A: The key is to be as cost-effective with my services as possible. To be honest with them about the chances of them getting what they’re looking for. Trying to help them realize that sometimes the best thing you can do is get through the process as quickly as possible rather than spending $50,000 to fight over a $5,000 car.

我尽量避免把人惹毛。撞头过程往往会把人们推得越来越远，这意味着要花更长的时间才能找到解决办法。我不是说我是调解型的律师。我没有。但是我认为对于每个人来说，摊牌并且尽可能快地完成这个过程是非常重要的。我就像一个船夫想把他们从一条糟糕的河的一边带到另一边。如果我能安全地做到这一点，我就完成了我的工作，这种商业模式就会传播开来，他们就会派其他人来找我。我可以帮助更多的人。

I go out of my way to avoid winding people up. The butting-head process tends to push people farther and farther apart, which means it takes longer and longer to find resolution. I’m not saying I’m a mediation-type attorney. I’m not. But I think it’s important for everybody to lay their cards on the table and try to get through the process as quickly as they can. I’m like a boatman trying to get them from one side of a bad river to the other. If I can just do that safely, I’ve done my job and that business model will spread, and they’ll send other people to me. And I can actually help more people.

我们的生命很短暂，而你只有这么多时间。那么为什么要花5% 的钱来争取离婚呢？

You know, it’s a short life we live, and you’ve only got so much time to live it. So why spend 5 percent of it fighting a divorce?

问: 你最近成立了自己的实践，与……

Q: You recently set up your own practice with …

答: 罗伯特 · 科恩。他是个很有经验的律师。这对我来说是完美的平衡，我希望他也是，因为我热爱我所做的事情。我喜欢每天来上班。我已经度假30年了，对吧？我喜欢帮助别人解决问题。

A: Robert Cohen. He’s a very experienced attorney. It’s a perfect balance for me, and I hope for him, because I love what I’m doing. I love coming to work every day. I’ve been on vacation for 30 years, right? I love helping people with their problems.

问: 尽管家庭法被认为是最情绪化的实践领域之一。

Q: Even though family law is considered one of the most emotional practice areas.

答：我不为此烦恼。人们会因为情绪而感到不安。但对我来说，作为一个演员，这就是你一直在做的。你处理人们的情绪。你要学会如何读懂它们。你要学会如何读懂潜台词。人们说，“我想要这个,”但这并不是他们真正想要的。他们想要别的东西，通常都和爱情有关。

A: I’m not bothered by it. People get very perturbed by the emotions. But for me, as an actor, that’s what you do all the time. You deal with people’s emotions. You learn how to read them. You learn how to read the subtext. People say, “I want this,” but that’s not really what they want. They want something else, and it’s usually got some connection to, you know, love or …

通常在家庭法中，我觉得人们在处理恐惧——我会怎么样？我要怎么照顾自己？我该怎么照顾我的孩子? ——还有被拒绝。这种恐惧往往会转化为愤怒或固执，使这一过程更加困难，并在本不该有的地方引起怀疑。所以，如果你能找到一些方法来动摇或解决恐惧，你就已经帮上忙了。理想情况下，双方都能有尊严地结束离婚，这一点很重要。

Often in family law, I feel like people are dealing with fear—What’s going to happen to me? How am I going to take care of myself? How am I going to take care of my kids?—coupled with rejection. That fear can often turn into anger or obstinance, which makes the process more difficult and creates suspicions where there should be none. So if you can find some way to sway or address the fear, you’ve helped. Ideally, it’s important that both sides can walk away from a divorce with some dignity.

问: 你如何深入了解客户的真正意思？

Q: How do you drill down to get at what clients truly mean?

答：我认为知道动机是什么很重要。让我们假设一位妻子来到这里，她觉得自己是他们所说的“出柜配偶”。丈夫赚了所有的钱。她有点与世隔绝。她的动机是什么？她到底想要什么？

A: I think it’s important to know what the motivation is. Let’s say a wife comes in and she’s felt like she’s been the “out spouse,” as they call it. The husband’s made all the money. She’s been sort of isolated. What’s her motivation? What is she really going for?

一部分是解放。(但是)那些被压抑的人们，在诉讼的某个时候，他们开始转过身来说，“我自由了。我要复仇”所以要找到一个平衡点。试图教育他们如何保持平衡，然后说，“这真的是你想要的吗？回去给他施加压力会让你满意吗?”大多数时候，当人们成熟的时候，他们会说不。

Part of it is liberation. [But] people like that who have been repressed, at some point in the litigation, they start to turn and go, “I’m free. I want revenge.” So it’s finding a balance for that. And trying to educate them as to the balance and go, “Is that really what you want? Does going back and trying to put the screws to him going to give you satisfaction?” Most of the time, when people are mature about it, they say no.

问: 你们主要代表女性吗？

Q: Do you mostly represent women?

答: 一点也不。我曾经代理过一些父亲搬家的案子。

A: Not at all. I have represented a number of fathers in move-away cases.

问: 搬家案件？

Q: Move-away cases?

答：一个人想带着孩子搬出这个州。如果有合理的理由，比如某人在 IBM 工作，他们被调走了，他们是主要的监护人，意味着他们70% 的时间都在照顾孩子，有时候法院会允许他们这么做。但我处理过很多这样的案子，派对结束了，父亲有了新女友，母亲很生气，很生气，很受伤，于是决定“我要回家和妈妈住在一起，她在世界的另一边，我要带着孩子们一起走”。所以只要是合法的，你就合法地对待它。如果情况不是这样，你也得站出来面对。

A: Where one person wants to move out of state with the kids. If there’s a legitimate reason, when somebody’s, you know, worked for IBM, and they get transferred, and they are the primary custodial parent—meaning they take care of the kid 70 percent of the time or more—sometimes the court’s going to let them do that. But I’ve dealt with a number of cases where the parties break up, the father has some new girlfriend, the mother’s pissed off and angry and hurt and decides, “I’m going to go back home and live with Mom who’s on the other side of the world and I’m taking the kids with me.” So where it’s legitimate, you treat it legitimately. Where it’s not, you have to step up and deal with that, too.

问: 你是如何做到这一点的? 让客户以某种理性的方式看待这一点？

Q: How do you go about that? Get clients to see it in some rational way?

答：它值多少钱？在情感上有什么价值，在经济上有什么价值，来进行这样的斗争？我认为重要的是不要让客户，如果可以的话，因为他们在伤害自己而逃避自己的案子。

A: What’s it worth? What’s it worth emotionally, what’s it worth financially, to have those kinds of battles? I think it’s important not to let the client, if you can, run away with their own case because they’re harming themselves.

另一方面……我毕业后，没有直接去上班，而是去了市中心，为许多不同的法官工作，帮助写意见。在这个过程中，我问了一些法官，“当你的客户想要打架，而你知道这不符合他们的利益时，你会怎么做?”对一个人来说，他们都说了同样的话: 如果你告诉你的当事人，他们会去找另一个律师。所以关键是要明白他们为什么想要它。并相信他们为什么想要它。看看还有没有其他方法也能让他们得到他们想要的东西。

On the other hand … after I graduated from school, instead of going straight to work, I went downtown and clerked for a lot of different judges and helped write opinions. In the course of doing that, I asked a number of judges, “What do you do when your client wants to fight and you know it’s not in their interest?” And to a person, they all said the same thing: If you tell your client that, they’re going to go get another lawyer. So the key is to understand why they want it. And give credence to why they want it. And to see if there’s some other way that’s also in their best interest to get something of what they want.

问: 你提到了处理情绪的角度，舞台和法律事业之间还有其他联系吗？

Q: You’ve mentioned the dealing-with-emotions angle. Are there other connections between stage and legal careers?

答：哦，当然。我在舞台上待了25年。我演唱会的一部分工作就是和观众交流。我已经习惯了和2000到3000人即兴交谈。做到这一点，你就能培养出绝对适用于法庭的技能。你培养了一种时间感，你培养了一种读懂观众的感觉，你能感觉到他们的注意力在哪里。

A: Oh, absolutely. I spent 25 years onstage. And part of what I do in concert is talk to the audience. I’m used to talking to 2,000 or 3,000 people off the cuff. Doing that, you develop skills that absolutely transfer to the courtroom. You develop a sense of timing, you develop a sense of reading the audience; you can just feel where their attention is.

这是非常宝贵的经验。当我在台上的时候，我和在台下的时候几乎是同一个人。我习惯在舞台上做我自己。这是人们不习惯在法庭上做的事。

It’s an invaluable experience. When I’m onstage, I’m pretty much the same person as I am offstage. I’m used to being myself onstage. And that’s something that people aren’t used to doing in court.

问: 做自己？

Q: Being themselves?

答：做自己。

A: Being themselves.

问: 早些时候你谈到了去法学院的想法，这个想法是从哪里来的？

Q: Earlier you talked about having that idea of going to law school. Where did that idea come from?

答: 我开始考虑在获得托尼奖后的几个星期内去上法学院。

A: I started thinking about going to law school within a couple weeks of winning the Tony Award.

问: 你在开玩笑吧。

Q: You’re kidding.

答: 是的。只是因为我喜欢做不同的事情。我是华尔街的经纪人。我喜欢这样做，我喜欢学习它。我喜欢戏剧，而且我在戏剧里表现得很好。

A: I did. Just because I like doing different things. I was a broker on Wall Street. I loved doing it and I loved learning it. I loved being in theater and I did well in theater.

问: 你们修复了房屋……

Q: You restored homes …

答: 我修复了工匠风格的房屋，并且在1999年因为我所做的一个项目而获得了洛杉矶市修复奖。现在我在做家庭法，我热爱我的工作。

A: I restored Craftsman-style homes and won the city of LA restoration award in 1999 for one of the houses I did. And now I’m doing family law and I love what I’m doing.

我的舞台生活和法律生活还有一个联系。在舞台上，我有能力在情感上与一首歌产生联系，这种联系对观众来说是可信的，能够打动人心。这给了我很大的满足感。所以我才这么做。我喜欢分享这份礼物。现在我处在一个地方，我可以接受我的一切，并利用它真正产生影响，并希望，在一些人的生活中，在一个非常消极的时期，对他们的生活产生积极的影响。如果我能帮助他们度过这段艰难的时期，我已经做了一件让我非常满意的事情。

Here’s another connection between my stage life and my legal life. Onstage, I have an ability to connect emotionally with a song in a way that’s believable to the audience and moves people. That gives me a great deal of satisfaction. That’s why I do it. I love sharing that gift. Now I’m in a place where I can take all of what I am and use it to actually make an impact, and hopefully, a positive impact on somebody’s life during a very negative time in their life. If I can help them get through this difficult time, I’ve done something that gives me a tremendous amount of satisfaction.

问: 从某种意义上说，这是你第四次成功的职业生涯。对于为什么你能在这些职业中做得很好，你能给别人一些建议吗？

Q: So in a certain way, this is your fourth successful career. Any advice you could give others as to why you’ve been able to do well in each of these careers?

答：这只是我对学习的迷恋。我们可以出去吃午饭，我可以走回餐厅，然后我就开始想“我怎样才能更快地洗碗?”我只是喜欢学习。我经常读到这个。我只是对这个星球很感兴趣。因为我觉得我们在这里的时间太短了，我们还能做什么呢？你认识 George Plimpton 吗？

A: It’s just my fascination with learning. We could go out to lunch, and I could walk back in the restaurant, and I’d start thinking, “How can I wash the dishes faster?” I just like learning things. I read about that all the time. I’m just voracious in my interest in the planet. Because I think we’re here for such a short amount of time and what else is there to do? Do you know George Plimpton?

问：纸狮子，伟大的作家。

Q: Paper Lion. Great writer.

答：他参加了所有这些不同的运动，对吗？当我还是个孩子的时候，我对此很着迷。我说”看看这家伙。他不怕尝试所有这些事情。”这引起了我的共鸣。

A: He played all these different sports, right? When I was a kid, I was fascinated by that. I was going, “Look at this guy. He’s not afraid to try all these things.” That struck a chord with me.

问: 你看过电影版的《悲惨世界》吗？

Q: Did you see the movie version of Les Mis?

答: 是的。

A: I did.

问: 然后呢？

Q: And?

答：我所有的朋友都会说: “你能相信那部电影吗?”？糟透了。”我只是……你怎么知道的？第一，谁在乎我们25年前做了什么？看看这部电影做了什么。它把这个节目带给了成千上万的人，否则他们永远不会看到它。

A: All my friends, they’re going, “Can you believe that movie? It sucks.” And I’m just … how do you get that? One, who cares what we did 25 years ago? Look at what this movie’s done. It’s brought this show to millions and millions of people who otherwise never would have seen it.

问: 这有没有妨碍你的家庭法律事务——你在《悲惨世界》里扮演安灼拉的事实？

Q: Does it ever get in the way of your family law practice—the fact that you played Enjolras in Les Mis?

答：我没有告诉任何人这件事。

A: I don’t tell anybody about it.

问: 对，但是……

Q: Right, but …

答：所以如果有人知道了，可能，而且只有一分钟，会妨碍我们。事实上，如果有什么事的话，那就是妨碍了对方律师。因为他们觉得“这家伙只是个歌手”。

A: So if somebody knows, it may, and only for a minute, get in the way. Actually, if anything, it gets in the way of the opposing counsel. Because they think, “Oh, this guy’s just a singer.”

问: 所以他们会低估你。

Q: So they’ll underestimate you.

答：他们大大低估了我，这是他们最大的错误。

A: They underestimate me big time. And that’s their big mistake.