关于小海翻翻译华晨宇歌曲的一些事
关于歌曲翻译
最近在一个寒鴉反应视频下看到了一些人在评论下面讨论关于什么样才算是华晨宇歌曲 “好” 翻译的激烈争论。作为翻译组，海翻对这个话题有很多话要说。然而，我们不想在视频下面用这样的辩论来分散反应观众的注意力，所以我们想在这里分享我们的想法。
首先，我们很高兴歌迷们对翻译质量如此热情。我们很早就想解释海翻翻译华晨宇歌曲的理念，但又担心这会让歌迷觉得 “无聊”。
由于题目比较大，我觉得写成问答的形式比较清楚。请注意，我们这场辩论的目的从来不是关于谁的翻译好或坏，而是如何最好地分享花花的音乐。
Debate About Song Translations
We saw some heated debate about what counts as a “good” translation of Hua Hua’s songs under a reaction video recently. As a translator group, we have a lot to say on this topic. However, we don’t want to distract reaction viewers with such debates, so we want to share our thoughts here instead.
First of all, we are happy that fans are so passionate about the quality of the translation. We’ve wanted to explain our philosophy in translating Hua’s songs for a long time but have been worried that it would be “boring” to fans.
Since the topic is quite large, I think writing it in the Q&A format is clearer. Note that our intention in this debate is never about whose translation is good or bad, but how to best share Hua Hua’s music.
Q1：“翻译”有标准吗？
是的，从三个方面衡量翻译质量一直有一个标准 信 达 雅：
1. 忠实度 2. 可理解性和 3. 优雅/自然流畅。
忠实是最重要的方面，因为如果信息是错误的，那么无论翻译多么好理解或翻译多么漂亮，你都偏离了信息，因此它不能算作一个好的翻译。
Q1: Is there a standard in “translations”?
Yes, there has been a long-held standard in gauging the quality of translation in three aspects: 1. Faithfulness 2. Understandability and 3. Gracefulness/natural flow.
Faithfulness is the most important aspect because if the message is wrong, then no matter how understandable or how beautiful the translation is, you go off the message, therefore it cannot be counted as a good translation.
Q2：忠实翻译是指逐字机器翻译吗？
答：不是的。客观上可以从几个方面来评判忠信。我们在翻译的时候会注意以下几个方面：
1. 是否准确翻译了歌词的整体基调？这首歌是情绪化的、愤世嫉俗的、沉思的、好玩的还是幽默的？这些方面决定了单词的选择。
2. 翻译是否传达了原曲的意象？翻译中是否遗漏了任何隐喻？
3. 译文是否翻译了歌词的内在逻辑，使其连贯？
4. 翻译是否反映了歌词中使用的文化和历史参考？
类似机器的逐字翻译几乎从不反映这些方面。
Q2: Does faithful translation means word-for-word machine-like translation?
Answer: No. Faithfulness can be judged in several aspects objectively. When we translate, we would pay attention to the following aspects:
1. Does it translate the overall tone of the lyrics accurately? Is the song emotional, cynical, pensive, playful, or humorous? These aspects determine word choices.
2. Does the translation convey the imagery of the original song? Does any metaphor got lost in the translation?
3. Does the translation translate the inherent logic of the lyrics so that it’s coherent?
4. Does the translation reflect the cultural and historical references used in the lyrics?
Machine-like word-for-word translations almost never reflect these aspects.
Q3.为什么海翻的一些翻译有时会令人困惑和晦涩？
A：如果你比较一下我们翻译的第四张专辑和第五张专辑（12月发行，2021年演唱会期间部分公开），你可能会发现我们对第四张专辑歌曲的翻译比第五张专辑歌曲更难理解。原因是由于原始歌词中的文化参考。对于这一点，我必须更广泛地解释一下，因为它对外国粉丝来说可能非常“陌生”。
我们发现华华对道教和佛教作为哲学和精神原则（而不是宗教）有着浓厚的兴趣。道教和佛教的特点都是大量使用谜题般的“隐喻”语言，旨在挑战人们在日常语言中普遍持有的信仰。
比如在《寒鸦少年》里，我们内部议论纷纷的一句歌词是“月光正坐下 在祷告
乌鸦张开嘴巴”。这句歌词最初被翻译为“当月光撒下时，我坐着祈祷”。这样的翻译从表面上看会自然和易懂得多。但如果我们采用这种翻译，原来的比喻就会丢失。
在道教（以及许多其他传统）中，从天而降的光是启蒙的隐喻，而乌鸦说的是不受欢迎的真理。这两句背后的逻辑是，月光从天而降，在祈祷中对我“说话”后，我现在明白了乌鸦所说的丑陋真相。如果我们回忆起开头的台词，“像一出默剧 视线有雾气 ” 那么逻辑就很完美了——歌曲首先描绘了一个非常神秘和令人费解的环境，然后主角通过一个启蒙时刻的信息意识到了这个阴谋。这只是许多文化参考中的一个小例子，这些文化参考无法在直接翻译的歌词中体现出来。
Q3. Why some of your translations are confusing and obscure?
A: If you compare our translation of Album 4 and Album 5 (To be released in Dec and partially revealed during the 2021 concert), you may find our translation of Album 4 songs a lot less understandable than Album 5 songs. The reason is due to the cultural references in the original lyrics. For this point, I have to explain a bit more extensively as it’s perhaps very “foreign” to foreign fans.
We found that Hua Hua has had a deep interest in Taoism and Buddhism as philosophical and spiritual principles (not as religions). Taoism and Buddhism are both characterized by the extensive use of puzzle-like “metaphorical” language that is meant to challenge people’s commonly held beliefs in everyday language.
For example, in “Jackdaw Boy”, one line of lyrics that got a lot of our internal discussions was “The moonlight is settling down and praying, the crows open their mouth, mouth”. This line of lyric was first translated to” When the moonlight was shining, I was sitting and praying.” This translation would sound a lot more natural and understandable on the surface. But if we adopted this translation, the original metaphor would be lost. In Taoism (and many other traditions), light shining down from above is a metaphor for enlightenment, and crows speak the unwelcoming truth. The logic behind these two lines is that after moonlight shone down from above and “talked” to me in the prays, I now understand the ugly truth spoken by the crows. If we recall the opening lines, “It’s like in a mime, there is haze in the eyesight. “ then the logic flows perfectly—The song first depicts an environment that’s very mysterious and puzzling, then the main character realized the conspiracy through a message from a moment of enlightenment. This is just one tiny example of the many cultural references that can’t be made apparent in our translations of the lyrics directly.
Q4：如果原字不动的翻译会让人看不懂，翻译成看得懂的不是更好吗？
A：我们觉得要尊重艺术家的初衷。如果他的意思是令人费解和有趣，那就这样吧。如果把我们对译文的理解也加入进来，那就太自私了。如果人们发现它令人费解并且被失去兴趣而不是被这些歌曲所吸引，那么就是这样了。花花从不讨好观众，而是“双向选择”。我们选择花花是因为他的音乐创作，花花也选择了尊重和重视他的创作的粉丝。我们凭什么歪曲他的初衷？
Q4: If the faithful translation is not understandable, wouldn’t it be better to translate it into something understandable?
A: We feel that we have to respect the artist’s original intention. If he meant it to be puzzling and intriguing, then so be it. It would be too egoistic if we throw in our interpretation of the translation. If people find it puzzling and got turned off rather than being intrigued by these songs then it’s meant to be that way. Hua Hua never appeases the audience and it’s rather a “two-way selection”. We chose Hua Hua for his music creations and Hua Hua also chose fans who respect and value his creations. Who are we to distort his original intention?
Q5: 能说一口流利中文的人就可以判断翻译的质量吗？
A：我们必须指出的是，4专中的歌词不仅对外国歌迷来说晦涩难懂，对以中文为母语人士来说也是如此，大多数人以宗教迷信实践的形式而不是哲学形式来理解这些哲学。因此，如果您抓住一个普通的说中文的人，他们很可能会说这样的歌词“不可理解”。
然而，我们发现，许多帮花作词的词人与其他歌手的合作，实际上常常没有用这些文化参照物来写作。唯一的可能，就是花花给了作词人这样的想法。火星人现在有一个共识，花花在塑造他所有的歌词中起着至关重要的作用。
因此，找一个普通的说中文的人来判断翻译的好坏，在专辑4的歌曲中是完全没有意义的。至少她/他应该广泛阅读道教佛教文本并且对歌词有很好的理解。如果他/她一开始就觉得这些歌词令人费解，那么他/她当然会忽略歌词背后的隐喻和内在逻辑。
2019年后花花的兴趣发生了一些变化，用他自己的话说，他在专辑5中写了更多关于日常生活的东西。所以我们和观众欣赏翻译的工作就容易多了。我们不必处理这些隐藏的隐喻。但这种风格转变可能不是永久性的。他将来可能又会回到这种写作风格。
Q5: Can any fluent Chinese speaker be a judge of the quality of translations?
A: I have to point out that lyrics in Album4 are not just obscure and confusing to foreign fans, but also to native Chinese speakers as Taoism and Buddhism are foreign to most Chinese contemporary audiences. Most people understand these philosophies in the form of superstitious religious practices rather than as forms of philosophy. So if you grab a common Chinese speaker, most likely, they would say that such lyrics are not “understandable”.
However, We found that most lyricsts who worked with other artists, they actually don’t write with these cultural references at all. The only possibility is that Hua Hua was the one who gave her such ideas. Martians have a consensus now that Hua Hua plays a vital role in shaping all his lyrics.
So grabbing an average Chinese speaker to judge what’s good and bad translation will be totally off on Album 4 songs. At least she/he should have read Taoism Buddhism text extensively and have a good understanding of the lyrics. If he/she finds these lyrics puzzling, to begin with, then of course, he/she will ignore the metaphors and the inherent logic behind the lyrics.
Hua Hua’s interest shifted somewhat after 2019. In his own words, he wrote more about everyday life in his Album 5. So it was a much easier job for us and the audiences in appreciating the translations. We didn’t have to deal with such hidden metaphors. But this style shift may not be permanent. He might go back to this style of writing in the future.
Q6：翻译的正确与否没有客观的标准，所以只有更容易理解和自然流畅的翻译才是好的翻译。
答：我们同意没有“正确”的解释，所以我们尽可能忠实于原作者，将“解释”的选择权留给外国粉丝。正如我们回答的第一题中所概述的那样，“忠实”是相对客观的。如果我们插入很多我们的解释，那么外国粉丝能 “阐释” 的机会就少了。
Q6: There is no objective standard in what’s correct in interpretations so only translations that are more understandable and flow naturally count as good translations.
Answer: We agree that there are no “correct” interpretations and that’s why we’ve tried our best to be faithful to the original lyricist as much as possible and leave the option of “interpretation” to foreign fans. Being “faithful” is relatively objective as we have outlined in Q1. If we interject in a lot of our interpretations, then it leaves less option for foreign fans to be “interpretive.”
Q7：海翻是如何尝试提高可理解性的？
A：多年来，海翻与许多以英语为母语的人合作过。我可以分享一个我们讨论歌词表的链接，以显示每首歌曲都进行了多少编辑和修正。我们理解可理解性和流畅性的重要性，尽管我们将忠诚度看得高于这两个目标。总有改进的余地，我们欢迎任何关于好的翻译的建议。我们还不断招募新的编辑与海翻合作。
Q7: How did you try to improve the understandability?
A: Over the years, we have worked with many native English speakers. I can share a link to our discussion sheet to show how much editing and correction went into every single song. We understand the importance of understandability and flow although we value faithfulness above these two objectives. There is always room for improvement and we would welcome any suggestions for good translations. We also constantly recruit new editors to work with us.
Q8：翻译上的小差异无关紧要，你为什么要为这些争论烦恼？
如果纯粹是解释风格、用词等问题，我们一般不会费心去提出不同意见。翻译有很大的灵活性，人们有偏好。我们明白这一点。
我们认为当翻译如果与忠实离得太远，那就很重要了。例如 官方的四专七重人格被翻译成 "Split" (人格分裂)。还有在《七重人格》刚发布的时候，湖南卫视的一位消息人士发表了一篇解读，说花花在《七重人格》中表达了“残忍和控制狂”。这种解释很普遍。花花平时对自己的歌曲的诠释通常非常灵活。但对于《七重人格》，他在去年的采访中不得不发声，说出“最流行的七重人格”的解读都不是他的本意，“七重人格”并不是七种不同的分裂状态，它们是连续的”。所以很明显，花花在一定程度上至少在大方向上，是在意诠释的。
Q8: Little differences in translation don’t matter and why do you bother with these arguments?
We generally won’t bother to raise a difference in opinion if it’s purely a matter of interpretative style, choice of words, etc. There is a lot of flexibility in translation and people have preferences. We understand that.
We think if faithfulness is too far off, it matters. For example, on EEMedia’s Album 4 CDs, Seven Personalities was translated as Split. Also, when Seven Personalities was first released, a source from the Hunan TV group published an interpretation talking about Hua Hua expressing “cruelty and control freak” in Seven Personalities. The interpretation was widespread. Hua Hua is usually very flexible about interpretations of his songs. Yet on Seven Personalities, he had to raise his voice in the Yuli interview last year that “The most popular interpretation of Seven Personalities” was not his original intention, and that Seven Personality “is not about being seven different split states, they are continuous”. So obviously, Hua Hua cares about interpretations to a certain degree. At least in the general direction.
问：你有没有试图排挤其他翻译小组？
我们从未不公平地排挤任何其他翻译小组。事实上，从一开始，我们就被长期攻击我们的人从多方面不公平地排挤，包括通过非常低级和卑鄙的手段，例如最近对我们频道的造假恶意版权攻击和多年来对海翻的各种诽谤。我们一直相信公开对话，我们欢迎对我们的翻译提出批评。我们也理解您是否喜欢其他风格的翻译。
由于缺乏对现有翻译的忠实方面的关注，海翻于 2017 年首次成立华晨宇的翻译小组。在此之前我们确实尝试对其他的翻译指出一些问题，但发现ˋ这些建议无济于事，于是我们决定自己成立翻译小组。一开始我们对这些问题非常直言不讳。然而，这样的讨论往往被曲解为我们“攻击”其他译者。
我们不得不说，我们从来没有打算“攻击”其他译者。我们一直是希望更好地展示花花的作品。当我们发现这样的建议经常被误解为“攻击”时，我们明白他们重点都不是真正放在花花想要表达的东西上。否则，这种“攻击”的指控不应该被提出，因为我们相信作为歌迷的公开对话。
此外，多年来我们一直在接受各种关于我们翻译的建议。我们从来没有把批评我们的翻译 “晦涩难懂” 视为恶意攻击，而是当做是歌迷的真诚建议。事后却被猜测海翻的意图是试图吸引注意力或排挤其他翻译小组，这对我们非常非常有害。
海翻希望下次，如果你听到类似的话，请在得出任何结论之前至少听听我们这边的故事。
我们的最后一句话：我们并不是想说我们有最好的翻译。我们只是在翻译中阐述我们的理念。您是否同意我们取决于您。我们希望我们可以不同意彼此的尊重。至少不要将我们在这些对话中的意图猜测为“攻击”。
Q: Have you been trying to push out other translation groups?
We have never unfairly pushed out any other translator groups. In fact, from the very beginning, we have been unfairly pushed out by our long-time attackers from multiple fronts, including through very low and abject means such as the recent fake copyright attack on our channel and various slanders throughout the years. We have always believed in open dialogues and we welcome criticism of our translations. We also understand if you prefer other styles of translation.
We first started our translation group in 2017 because of a lack of attention to the faithful aspects of the existing translations. We did try to point out the problems initially but these suggestions went nowhere, and we started our own translation group instead. We were quite outspoken about these issues at the beginning. However, such discussions were often distorted as us “attacking” other translators. We have to say that it’s never our intention to “attack” other translators. It has always been about a better presentation of Hua Hua’s work. When we found out that such suggestions were often misinterpreted as “attacks”, we understood that the focus was not really on what Hua Hua wanted to express. Otherwise, this charge of “attacking” should have never been raised as we believe in open dialogues as fans. Also, we’ve been accepting all kinds of suggestions for our translations over the years. We’ve never taken criticism of our translation as “being obscure” as hostile attacks but as concerned fans’ sincere suggestions. Second-guessing our intention as trying to grab attention or to push out other translator groups has been very very hurtful to us. I wish that next time, if you hear something like that, please at least listen to our side of the story before you reach any conclusion.
Our final words: We are not trying to say that we have the best translations. We simply lay out our philosophy in translation. Whether you agree with us is up to you. We wish that we can disagree with respect to each other. At least don’t second guess our intention in these dialogues as “attacks”.
