lex fridman Michael Stevens访谈（中英双语）part1
The following is a conversation with Michael Stevens, the creator of Vsauce, one of the most popular educational YouTube channels in the world, with over 15 million subscribers and over one point seven billion views. His videos often ask and answer questions that are both profound and entertaining, spanning topics from physics to psychology. Popular questions include what if everyone jumped at once or what if the sun disappeared or why are things creepy Or what if the earth stopped spinning As part of his channel, he created three seasons of minefield, a series that explored human behavior. His curiosity and passion are contagious and inspiring to millions of people. And so as an educator, his impact and contribution to the world is truly immeasurable.
以下是与 Vsauce 的创始人 Michael Stevens 的对话，他是世界上最受欢迎的教育 YouTube 频道之一，拥有超过 150 百万订阅者和超过 10 亿 views。他的视频经常提出深刻而有趣的问题，涵盖从物理学到心理学的各种主题。其中最受欢迎的问题包括：如果每个人都跳一起会发生什么？如果太阳消失会发生什么？为什么有些事情让人感到诡异？或者地球停止自转会发生什么？作为频道的一部分，他创造了三季的“陷阱”系列，探索人类行为。他的好奇和热情可以传染，激励数百万人。作为一名教育工作者，他对世界的影响和贡献是无法估量的。
And now here's my conversation with Michael Stevens. One of your deeper interests is psychology, understanding human behavior. You've pointed out how messy studying human behavior is, and that it's far from the scientific rigor of something like physics, for example. How do you think we can take psychology from where it's been in the 20th century to something more like what the physicists, theoretical physicists are doing, something precise, something rigorous Well, we could do it by finding the physical foundations of psychology, right If all of our emotions and moods and feelings and behaviors are the result of mechanical behaviors of atoms and molecules in our brains, then can we find correlations Perhaps like chaos makes that really difficult and the uncertainty principle and all these things. We can't know the position and velocity of every single quantum state in a brain, probably. But I think that if we can get to that point with psychology, then we can start to think about consciousness in a physical and mathematical way. When we ask questions like, well, what is self-reference How can you think about your self-thinking What are some mathematical structures that could bring that about There's ideas of, in terms of consciousness and breaking it down into physics, there's ideas of panpsychism where people believe that whatever consciousness is, is a fundamental part of reality. It's almost like a physics law. Do you think what's your views on consciousness Do you think it has this deep part of reality or is it something that's deeply human and constructed by us humans Starting nice and light and easy.
下面是我和 Michael Stevens 的对话。你更深入的兴趣是心理学，理解人类行为。你指出研究人类行为非常困难，并且它远远不像物理学那样具有科学严谨性。你认为我们如何从20世纪的水平转移到像物理学家、理论物理学家那样精确、严谨的状态？我们可以找到心理学的物理基础，right？如果我们所有的情感、情绪、感觉和行为都是大脑机械行为的结果，那么我们能否找到相关性，例如 chaos 可能会非常困难，不确定性原理和所有这些东西。我们可能不知道大脑每个量子状态的确切位置和速度，大概。但是，我认为如果我们能够到达心理学这种状态，我们可以开始用物理和数学的方式思考意识。当我们问，什么是自我意识？你如何思考自己的自我意识？有哪些数学结构可以带来这些？有关于意识的想法，将其从物理学拆分，有存在主义物理学，其中人们相信，无论意识是什么，都是现实世界的基本原理。它几乎就像物理学定律一样。你认为你的自我意识观点是什么？你认为意识有现实世界的深度吗？还是它是人类构建的？
Yeah, easy. Nothing I ask you today has actually proven answer, so we're just hypothesizing. So yeah, I mean, I should clarify, this is all speculation. Yeah, you're not a doctor. And I'm not an expert in any of these topics and I'm not God. But I think that consciousness is probably something that can be fully explained within the laws of physics. I think that our, you know, bodies and brains and the universe and at the quantum level is so rich and complex. I'd be surprised if we couldn't find a room for consciousness there. And why should we be conscious Why are we aware of ourselves That is a very strange and interesting and important question. And I think for the next few thousand years, we're going to have to believe in answers purely on faith. But my guess is that we will find that, you know, within the configuration space of possible arrangements of the universe, there are some that contain memories of others. Literally, Julian Barber calls them time capsule states where you're like, yeah, not only do I have a scratch on my arm,
是的，很容易。我今天所提出的问题并没有实际证明答案，因此我们只是在假设。所以是的，我需要澄清一下，这所有的都是猜测。你不是一个医生，我也不是这些话题的专家，我也不是上帝。但我认为意识可能是在物理学定律的范围内完全解释的东西。我认为我们的身体和大脑以及宇宙在量子层面上非常丰富和复杂。我们可能会惊奇地发现意识没有在这找到一片空间。我们为什么要意识，我们为什么意识到自己。这是一个非常奇怪且有趣且重要的问题。我认为在未来的几千年里，我们将不得不纯靠信仰相信答案。但我猜我们会在宇宙的可能排列空间中找到一些包含其他人的记忆。literally,Julian Barber把它们称为时间胶囊状态，就是你比如说，嗯，不仅我手臂上有擦伤 but also this state of the universe also contains a memory in my head of being scratched by my cat three days ago. And for some reason, those kinds of states of the universe are more plentiful or more likely. When you say those states, the ones that contain memories of its past or ones that contain memories of its past and have degrees of consciousness. Just the first part, because I think the consciousness then emerges from the fact that a state of the universe that contains fragments or memories of other states is one where you're going to feel like there's time. You're going to feel like, yeah, things happened in the past. And I don't know what will happen in the future because these states don't contain information about the future.
但也是那种宇宙中的状态，在我的脑海中也包含了被猫挠伤的记忆。由于某种原因，这些宇宙中的状态更加普遍或更加可能。当你提到这些状态时，它们是包含过去记忆的或具有过去意识的状态的，只是第一种状态，因为我认为这是意识产生的原因在于宇宙中包含碎片或其他状态的记忆，它会让人感觉时间存在。你会感觉，是啊，事情发生在过去。我不确定未来会是什么样子，因为这些状态中没有关于未来的信息。
For some reason, those kind of states are either more common, more plentiful, or you could use the anthropic principle and just say, well, they're extremely rare, but until you are in one or if you are in one, then you can ask questions like you're asking me on this podcast. Why questions But yeah, it's like, why are we conscious Well, because if we weren't, we wouldn't be asking why we were. You've kind of implied that you have a sense, again, hypothesis theorizing that the universe is deterministic.
某些情况下，这些状态可能更加普遍、更加充足，或者你可以使用奥卡姆剃刀原理，简单地表示它们非常罕见，但直到你处于其中或如果你处于其中，你就可以像在这 Podcast 上问我这些问题一样提出问题。为什么？就像问我们为什么有意识的一样，因为我们如果不是有意识的，就不会问我们为什么有意识的。你似乎在暗示你有这种感觉，再次假设宇宙是决定论的。
What's your thoughts about free will Do you think of the universe as deterministic in a sense that it's unrolling a particular, like there's a, it's operating under a specific set of physical laws and when you have to set the initial conditions, it will unroll in the exact same way in our particular line of the universe every time. That is a very useful way to think about the universe. It's done us well. It's brought us to the moon. It's brought us to where we are today.
你对自由意志的看法是什么？你认为宇宙是确定性的吗？宇宙是否在某种意义是离散的，就像展开一条特定的路径，它运行在特定的物理定律下，当你需要设置初始条件时，它会在我们宇宙中的特定路径上以相同的方式展开。这是一个非常有用的宇宙思考方式。它让我们做得很好。它让我们到达月球。它让我们到达今天我们所处的位置。
Right. I would not say that I believe in determinism in that kind of an absolute form, or actually I just don't care. Maybe it's true, but I'm not going to live my life like it is. What in your sense, cause you've studied kind of how we humans think of the world. What's in your view is the difference between our perception, like how we think the world is and reality. Do you think there's a huge gap there Like we dilute ourselves that the whole thing is an illusion, just everything about human psychology,
对。我不可以说我相信那种绝对的determinism，或者实际上我根本不关心。也许这是真的，但我不会按照它的生活方式生活。在你看来，这是什么原因，因为你研究人类对世界的看法。在你看来，这是我们对世界的感知，就像我们对现实和世界的看法。你认为是否存在巨大的差距？就像我们会觉得自己被这个幻觉所稀释，所有关于人类心理学的事情。
the way we see things and how things actually are in all the things you've studied, what's your sense How big is the gap between reality Well, again, purely speculative. I think that we will never know the answer. We cannot know the answer. There is no experiment to find an answer to that question. Everything we experience is an event in our brain. When I look at a cat, I'm not even, I can't prove that there's a cat there. All I am experiencing is the perception of a cat inside my own brain. I am only a witness to the events of my mind. I think it is very useful to infer that if I witness the event of cat in my head,
我们所看到事物和它们实际的样子，以及你研究的所有事物中，你的感受是什么，差距有多大。
再次，这只是纯粹的猜测。我认为我们永远不会知道答案。我们不可能知道答案。没有实验可以找到这个问题的答案。我们所体验到的一切都是在大脑中发生的事件。当我看一只猫时，我并不是，我也无法证明那里是一只猫。我所体验到的是我自己大脑中对猫的感知。我只是大脑的事件的见证者。我认为推断如果我在大脑中看到了一只猫，这非常有用。
it's because I'm looking at a cat that is literally there and has its own feelings and motivations and should be pet and given food and water and love. I think that's the way you should live your life. But whether or not we live in a simulation, I'm a brain and a vat. I don't know. Do you care I don't really. Well, I care because it's a fascinating question and it's a fantastic way to get people excited about all kinds of topics, physics, psychology, consciousness, philosophy, but at the end of the day,
这只是因为我正在看着一只猫，它实际上就在那，它有它自己的情感和动机，应该被宠爱、给食物和水以及爱。我认为这就是你应该生活的方式。但是，我们是否生活在一个模拟中，我是一台电脑和一个培养皿，我不知道。你关心吗？其实，我关心你因为这是一个令人着迷的问题，它是一个很好的方式来激发人们对各种主题的兴趣，物理、心理学、意识、哲学，但是最终，我们都知道，这只是问题的一部分
what would the difference be if you. The cat needs to be fed at the end of the day. Otherwise it'll be a dead cat. Right. But if it's not even a real cat, then it's just like a video game cat. And right. So what's the difference between killing a, a digital cat in a video game because of neglect versus a real cat. It seems very different to us psychologically. Like I don't really feel bad about, oh my gosh, I forgot to feed my Tamagotchi.
如果猫需要在晚上喂食，否则它将死亡。是的。但如果这只猫甚至不是真正的猫，那么它就像游戏中的猫一样。是的。所以，因为忽视而在游戏中杀死一只数字猫和杀死一只真正的猫有什么区别。在我们心理方面看起来 very different。就像我并不会感到内疚，哦我的天，我忘记喂我的猫薄荷了。
Right. But I would feel terrible if I forgot to feed my actual cats. So can you just touch on the topic of simulation Do you find this thought experiment that we're living in a simulation useful, inspiring or constructive in any kind of way Do you think it's ridiculous Do you think it could be true or is it just a useful thought experiment I think it is extremely useful as a thought experiment because it makes sense to everyone, especially as we see virtual reality and computer games getting more and more complex,
好的。但我如果忘记喂我的真正的猫，我会感到非常不舒服。所以你能就模拟的话题谈一下吗？ 你认为这个思想实验——我们生活在模拟中是否有任何用处、激励或 constructive? 你认为它是否有些荒谬？ 或者它是否可能是真的吗？ 或者它只是有用的思想实验？ 我认为这个思想实验非常有价值，因为它对每个人都有益处，特别是在我们看到虚拟现实和电子游戏变得越来越复杂时。
you're not talking to an audience in like Newton's time where you're like, imagine a clock that it has mechanics in it that are so complex that it can create love and everyone's like, no, but today you really start to feel, you know, man, at what point is this little robot friend of mine going to be like someone I don't want to cancel plans with, you know And so it's a great, the thought experiment of do we live in a simulation Am I a brain in a vat that has just been given electrical impulses from some nefarious other beings so that I believe that I live on earth and that I have a body and all of this.
你不是在像牛顿时代那样面对一个观众，而是在讲述一个假设，也就是有复杂的机械组成的时钟，可以创造出爱情，每个人都会这样，不对，但今天，你开始意识到，你比如说，我的这个小机器人朋友什么时候会变得像我不希望取消计划的人那样了，你明白吗，这是一个伟大的思想实验，我们是否生活在一个模拟中，我是某个从邪恶的其他生物那里接受的电子脉冲的vat中的大脑的假人，这样我就相信，我生活在地球上，我有身体，这一切。
And the fact that you can't prove it either way is a fantastic way to introduce people to some of the deepest questions. So you mentioned a little buddy that you would want to cancel an appointment with. So that's a lot of our conversations. That's what my research is. Artificial intelligence. And I apologize, but you're such a fun person to ask these big questions with. Well, I hope I can give some answers that are interesting. Well, because, because of you've sharpened your brain's ability to explore some of the most,
而你无法证明这一点是让人们了解一些深层次问题的一个神奇的方式。所以你说想要取消与一个小朋友的约会。这就是我们的对话内容。这就是我的研究。人工智能。对不起，但你是一个非常有趣的人，与这些问题进行对话。我希望我可以给出一些有趣的答案。因为你已经提高了你大脑探索某些最深刻问题的能力
some of the questions that many scientists actually afraid of even touching,which is fascinating. And I think you're in that sense, ultimately a great scientist through this process of sharpening your brain. Well, I don't know if I am a scientist. I think, you know, science is a way of knowing. And there are a lot of questions I investigate that are not scientific questions on, on like minefield. We have definitely done scientific experiments and studies that had hypotheses and all of that.
许多科学家实际上都害怕甚至不愿意回答某些问题，这些问题令人着迷。你在这个问题上的表现在某种程度上可以说是一位伟大的科学家。不过，我不知道我是不是一位科学家。我认为，科学是一种认识的方式。我调查的问题有些并不是科学问题，就像一片地雷区。我们确实进行了一些科学实验和研究，并提出了假设。
But, you know, not to be too like precious about what does the word science mean. But I think I would just describe myself as curious and I hope that that curiosity is contagious. So to you, the scientific method is deeply connected to science because your curiosity took you to asking questions. To me, asking a good question, even if you feel society feels that it's not a question within the reach of science currently, to me, the asking the question is the biggest step of the scientific process.
但我知道，不应该过于珍惜“科学”这个词的含义。我想我只能把自己描述为好奇的，并希望这种好奇心可以传染。因此，对于你来说，科学方法与科学紧密相连，因为你的好奇心使你走向了提问。对于我而言，提问一个好问题，即使认为当前的问题并不是科学可以涉及的，提问仍然是科学过程的一个大步骤。
The scientific method is the second part. And that may be what traditionally is called science, but to me, asking the questions, being brave enough to ask the questions, being curious and not constrained by what you're supposed to think is, is just true what it means to be a scientist to me. It's certainly a huge part of what it means to be a human.
科学方法只是传统上被称为科学的第二部分。对于我而言，提问、勇敢地提问、好奇并不受你应该认为的那样的约束，这就是作为科学家的真正含义。这对我来说无疑是人类的一部分，它显然是人类生活的重要组成部分。
If I were to say, you know what, I don't believe in forces. I think that when I push on a massive object, a ghost leaves my body and enters the object I'm pushing. And these ghosts happen to just get really lazy when they're around massive things. And that's why F equals MA. Oh, and by the way, the laziness of the ghost is in proportion to the mass of the object, so boom, proved me wrong. Every experiment, well, you can never find the ghost.
如果我说，你知道吗，我不相信力量。我认为当我推动一个巨大的物体时，一个幽灵会从我的身体中离开并进入推动的物体中。而这些幽灵在接触巨大的物体时会变得非常懒。这就是为什么F等于MA。哦，并且，幽灵的懒惰与物体的重量成比例，所以， Boom，证明我错了。每一次实验，嗯，你永远无法找到幽灵。
And so none of that theory is scientific. But once I start saying, can I see the ghost Why should there be a ghost And if there aren't ghosts, what might I expect And I start to do different tests to see, is this falsifiable Are there things that should happen if there are ghosts or are there things that shouldn't happen And do they, you know, what do I observe Now I'm thinking scientifically,
所有这些理论都不科学。但是，一旦我开始说，我能看到鬼吗？鬼的存在有什么必要性？如果没有鬼，我会得到什么样的期望？我开始做不同的测试来观察，这是否可证明？如果存在鬼，会发生什么事情？是否发生了不应该发生的事情？现在，我想科学地思考
I don't think of science as, wow, a picture of a black hole. That's just a photograph. That's an image. That's data. That's a sensory and perception experience. Science is how we got that and how we understand it and how we believe in it and how we reduce our uncertainty around what it means. But I would say I'm deeply within the scientific community and I'm sometimes disheartened by the elitism of the thinking, sort of not allowing yourself to think outside of the box. So allowing the possibility of going against the conventions of science,
我不认为科学像一幅黑洞的照片一样，只是一张图片。这只是一个照片。这只是一个图像。这只是一个数据。这只是一个感官和感知经验。科学是获取它的方法，理解和相信它的方法，减少我们对它的不确定感。但我会说，我深深地属于科学社区。有时，我因为思想的 elitism而感到沮丧，似乎不愿意跳出思维的圈子。因此，允许存在可能去反对科学的习俗，
I think is, is a beautiful part of some of the greatest scientists in history. I don't know. I, I'm impressed by scientists every day and, uh, revolutions in our knowledge of the world occur only under very special circumstances. It is very scary to challenge conventional thinking and, and, and risky because let's go back to elitism and ego, right If you just say, you know what, I believe in the spirits of my body and all forces are actually created by invisible creatures that, that, that transfer themselves between objects.
我认为，这是历史上一些最伟大的科学家之一所美好的一部分。我不知道。我每天都会被科学家们所震撼，我们对世界的认识在极端情况下发生了革命。挑战传统观念非常可怕，风险很高，让我们回到精英主义和自我感觉，对吧？如果你说，你知道吗，我相信我的身体的灵魂，所有的力量实际上是由看不见的生物体创造的，它们在物品之间转移自己。
If you ridicule every other theory and say that you're what you're, you're correct. Then ego gets involved and you just don't go anywhere. But the fundamentally the question of, well, what is a force Um, is incredibly important. We need to have that conversation, but it needs to be done in this very political way of like, let's be respectful of everyone and let's realize that we're all learning together and not shutting out other people.
如果你嘲笑所有其他理论并说这些都是胡言乱语，那么你是对的。然后自尊心介入，你就不会再有进展。但从根本上来说，问题就是，什么是力场？这是非常重要的。我们需要进行那样的对话，但需要以这种政治方式来交谈，尊重每个人，并意识到我们正在一起学习，而不是关闭其他人。
And so when you look at a lot of revolutionary ideas, um, they were not accepted right away and you know, Galileo had a couple of problems with the authorities and later thinkers Descartes was like, all right, look, I kind of agree with Galileo, but I'm going to have to not say that I'll have to create and invent and write different things that keep me from being in trouble, but we still slowly made progress. Revolutions are difficult in all forms and certainly in science. Before we get to AI on topic of revolutionary ideas,
因此，当你看待许多革命性思想时，它们并不是立即被接受的。你知道，Galileo与当局发生了一些问题，而后来的思想者笛卡尔就比如说，嗯，我可能有点像Galileo，但是我得承认，我可能需要创造、发明和写一些不同的东西来避免麻烦，但我们仍然缓慢地取得了进展。革命在任何形式中都非常困难，当然在科学中也是如此。在我们讨论革命性思想之前，我们得先解决人工智能的问题。
let me ask on a Reddit AMA, you said that is the earth flat is one of the favorite questions you've ever answered. Yeah. Speaking of revolutionary ideas. So your video on that people should definitely watch is really fascinating. Can you elaborate why you enjoyed answering this question so much Yeah, well, it's a long story. I remember a long time ago, uh, I was living in New York at the time. So it had to have been like 2009 or something. I visited the flat earth forums and this was before the flat earth theories became as sort of mainstream as they are. I'm sorry to ask the dumb question forums, online forums.
在 Reddit 的AMA(用户询问会)上，你表示地球是平的是你回答最喜欢的问题之一。是啊，谈论革命性思想。所以你的视频中关于人们必须观看的内容真的很有趣。你如何解释你非常喜欢回答这个问题的原因呢？嗯，这是一个很长的故事。我记得很久以前，当时，我生活在纽约。所以应该是2009年或 something。我去了平地球论坛，这是在平地球理论变得就像它们一样主流的之前。我很抱歉我问了一些愚蠢的问题论坛，在线论坛。
Yeah. Okay. The flat earth society. I don't know if it's.com or.org, but I went there and I was reading, you know, their ideas and how they responded to typical criticisms of, well, the earth isn't flat because what about this And I could not tell, and I mentioned this in my video, I couldn't tell how many of these, uh, community members actually believe the earth was flat or were just trolling. And I realized that the fascinating thing is how do we know anything and what makes for a good belief, uh, versus a maybe not so tenable or good belief.
哦。好的。平地球社会。我不知道它是否是www.或www.org，但我去了那里，阅读他们的想法，以及他们如何应对典型的批评，比如说，“地球是平的，这不公平。”我无法确定这些社区成员是否真的相信地球是平的，或者只是 Troll。我意识到，令人着迷的是，我们如何知道任何事情，以及什么是好的信念，哪些是也许不够可靠或好的信念。
And so that's really what my video about earth being flat is about. It's about, look, there are a lot of reasons. Uh, the earth is probably not flat. Um, but a flat earth believer can respond to every single one of them, but it's all in an ad hoc way and all of these, all of their rebuttals aren't necessarily going to form a cohesive, non-contradictory hole. And I believe that's the episode where I talk about Occam's razor and Newton's flaming laser sword.
所以这这就是我关于地球是平的视频所讨论的内容。它讨论的是关于地球是否平的很多问题，例如，地球可能不是平的。但是，一个平地球支持者只能以 ad-hoc 的方式回应这些问题，并且，所有这些回应都不会形成一个连贯、无矛盾的观点。我相信，这就是那个我讨论 Occam's razor 和牛顿的燃烧激光剑的剧集。
And then I say, well, you know what Wait a second. We know that space contracts as you move. And so to a particle moving near the speed of light towards earth, earth would be flattened in the direction of that particles travel. So to them, earth is flat. Like we need to be, you know, really generous to even wild ideas because they're all thinking they're all the communication of ideas and what else can it mean to be a human
然后我说，嗯，你知道什么，等待一下。我们知道，随着你移动，空间会收缩。因此，对于一个以接近光速向地球移动的粒子，地球在它的运动方向上会被压缩。所以对于那些粒子来说，地球是平的。就像我们需要，你知道的，对甚至狂野的想法都非常慷慨，因为它们都认为它们只是思想的传播，而人类意味着什么。
Yeah. And I think I'm a huge fan of the flat earth theory, quote unquote, in the sense that to me feels harmless to explore some of the questions of what it means to believe something, what it means to explore the edge of science and so on. It's cause it's a harm. It's a, to me, nobody gets hurt whether the earth is flat around, not literally, but I mean, intellectually, when we're just having a conversation that said, again, to elitism, I find that scientists roll their eyes way too fast on the flat earth, the kind of dismissal that I see to this even notion, they haven't like sat down and say, what are the arguments that are being proposed And this is why these arguments are incorrect.
是的，我认为我非常喜欢"平面地球"理论， quote unquote，因为它让我感到无害去探索一些问题，例如，它意味着什么相信某些东西，它意味着什么探索科学的边缘等等。这造成了伤害。对我来说，不管地球是平的还是斜的，都不会有人受到伤害，这不是字面上的意思，而是从智力上考虑，当我们只是在讨论精英主义时，我发现科学家在看待平面地球时眼睛眨眼的速度非常快，我可以看到他们对这个甚至 notion 的蔑视，他们并不想坐下来谈谈，提出这些观点的原因，这就是为什么这些观点不正确。
So this is, you know, that should be something that scientists should always do even to the most sort of ideas that seem ridiculous. So I like this as it's almost, it's almost my test when I ask people what they think about flat earth theory to see how quickly they roll their eyes. Well, yeah. I mean, let me go on record and say that the earth is not flat. It is a three-dimensional spheroid. However, I don't know that and it has not been proven. Science doesn't prove anything. It just reduces uncertainty. Could the earth actually be flat Extremely unlikely. Yes. Extremely unlikely
所以这应该一直是科学家所应始终遵循的原则，即使这些想法看起来毫无意义。所以我喜欢这种方式，它几乎就像是我的测试，当我询问人们对“地球是平的”理论的看法时，看看他们眨眼的速度。嗯，是啊。我要记录下来说地球不是平的，它是一个三维的球体。但是，我不知道这一点，这一点也没有被证明。科学并不能证明任何事情，它只是减少不确定性。地球是否真的是平的非常不太可能。是的。非常不太可能。
And so it is a ridiculous notion if we care about how probable and certain our ideas might be, but I think it's incredibly important to talk about science in that way. And to not resort to, well, it's true. It's true in the same way that a mathematical theorem is true. And I think we're kind of like being pretty pedantic about defining this stuff, but like, sure, I could take a rocket ship out and I could orbit earth and look at it and it would look like a ball, right But I still can't prove that I'm not living in a simulation, that I'm not a brain in a vat, that this isn't all an elaborate ruse created by some technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilization.
因此，我们在意我们的想法是否可能和确定是很滑稽的想法，但我认为这样谈论科学非常重要。不要陷入，好吧，这是真的。它就像数学定理一样是真的。我认为我们有点像在定义这些事物的非常仔细，但就像，我可以一艘火箭飞出太阳系，绕地球飞行并观察它，它看起来就像个球，对吧，但我仍然不能证明我不活在一个模拟中，我不成为一瓶大脑的模拟器，这并非由某些技术先进的外星文明制造的复杂的骗局。
So there's always some doubt and that's fine. That's exciting. And I think that kind of doubt, practically speaking, is useful when you start talking about quantum mechanics or string theory. It helps. To me, that kind of little adds a little spice into the thinking process of scientists. So, I mean, just as a thought experiment, your video kind of, okay, say the earth is flat, what would the forces when you walk about this flat earth feel like to the human That's a really nice thought experiment to think about.
因此，总会有一些疑虑，这是很正常的。这让人感到兴奋。而且，我认为，在实践中，这种疑虑是很有用的，当你开始谈论量子力学或弦理论时。它可以帮助。对我来说，这种疑虑小小的增加了科学家们的思考过程的乐趣。所以，就像一种思辨实验一样，你的视频也许可以这样设想，假设地球是一个平面，当你走在这个平面上时，你会感受到什么力量？这是一个非常有趣的思辨实验，可以让人深入思考人类和地球的关系。
Right. Because what's really nice about it is that it's a funny thought experiment, but you actually wind up accidentally learning a whole lot about gravity and about relativity and geometry. And I think that's really the goal of what I'm doing. I'm not trying to convince people that the earth is round. I feel like you either believe that it is or you don't. And that's, you know, how can I change that Yeah. What I can do is change how you think and how you are introduced to important concepts like, well, how does gravity operate Oh, it's all about the center of mass of an object.
对。因为这其实是一个有趣的思考实验，但实际上你会意外地学习很多关于重力、相对论和几何的知识。我认为这这就是我的目标。我并不试图说服人们地球是圆形的。我感觉人们要么相信地球是圆形的，要么不相信。那换句话说，我可以改变人们对这些概念的看法，比如，我可以改变人们对重力如何运作的看法，或者我可以让人们更好地了解物体的质量中心。
So, right, on a sphere, we're all pulled towards the middle, essentially the centroid geometrically, but on a disk, you're going to be pulled at a weird angle if you're out near the edge. And that stuff's fascinating. Yeah. And to me, that's that was that that particular video opened my eyes even more to what gravity is. It's just a really nice visualization tool of because you always imagine gravity with spheres with masses that are spheres. Yeah. And imagining gravity on masses that are not spherical, some some other shape. But here a plate, a flat object is really interesting. It makes you really kind of visualize in a three dimensional way the force.
对球形而言，我们都被指向中间，实际上几何学上的核心点，但对众来说，如果你靠近边缘，你会被缩成奇怪的角，这些事情非常令人着迷。是的。对我来说，那个视频让我更加了解了重力的本质。它只是一个非常美好的可视化工具，因为你总是想象重力是一个球状物，并且你常专注于想象重力对球状物上的众多样子。是的。想象重力对非球形物体或不同形状的样子，但它们对平板或平稳的样子非常有趣。它让你产生真实的3D可视化观点力。
Yeah. Even if a disk the size of Earth would be impossible, I think anything larger than like the moon basically needs to be a sphere because gravity will round it out. So you can't have a teacup the size of Jupiter, right There's a great book about a teacup in the universe that I highly recommend. I don't remember the author. I forget her name, but it's a wonderful book. So look it up. I think it's called Teacup in the Universe. Just to link on this point for briefly, your videos are generally super people love them.
是的。即使地球大小的圆盘是不可能的，我认为任何比月亮更大的物体都需要成为一个球体，因为重力会把它压实。所以不可能有木星大小的茶杯，对吧。
有一个非常好的关于茶杯在宇宙中的书，我强烈推荐。我不记得作者的名字。我不记得她的名字，但它是一本非常好的书。所以去查一下。我认为它被称为宇宙中的茶杯。
为了简要提及这一点，你的视频通常都非常受欢迎，
Right. If you look at the sort of number of likes versus dislikes, this measure of YouTube, right, is incredible. And as do I. But this particular flat Earth video has more dislikes than usual. What do you on that topic in general What's your sense How big is the community Not just who believes in flat Earth, but sort of the anti scientific community that naturally distrust scientists in a way that's not an open minded way. Like really just distrust scientists like they're bought by some kind of mechanism of the some kind of bigger system that's trying to manipulate human beings.
对。如果你查看 YouTube 上喜欢和不喜欢的数量，这个指标在 YouTube 上非常惊人，我也是。但是，这个特定的平球地球视频却比通常更多的反对者，也就是不信任科学家的社群。你对此有什么看法？这个社群的规模有多大？不仅仅在于相信平球地球的人，而是类似于反科学社群，它们天然地不信任科学家，以一种开放不了的思维方式。就像真的不信任科学家，就像他们被某种机制或某种更大的系统购买或操纵了。
What's your sense of the size of that community You're one of the sort of great educators in the world that educates people on the exciting power of science. So you're kind of up against this community. What's your sense of it I really have no idea. I haven't looked at the likes and dislikes on the flat Earth video. And so I would wonder if it has a greater percentage of dislikes than usual. Is that because of people disliking it Because they think that it's a video about Earth being flat and they find that ridiculous and they dislike it without even really watching much.
你对那个社区的规模有何感觉？你是全球那些伟大的科学家之一，教导人们科学令人兴奋的力量。所以你在某种程度上与这个社区对抗。你对这个社区的感觉是什么？我真的不知道。我没有看平球视频的喜欢和反对数量。所以我可能会想知道，它比通常的反对率更高。这是因为人们不喜欢它吗？因为他们认为它是一个关于地球是平的视频，并且他们发现这非常滑稽，并且他们甚至没有真正看过很多。
Do they wish that I was more like dismissive of flat Earth theories Yeah, that's possible. I know there are a lot of response videos that kind of go through the episode and are pro flat Earth. But I don't know if there's a larger community of unorthodox thinkers today than there have been in the past. OK, and I just want to not lose them. I want them to keep listening and thinking. And by calling them all idiots or something like that is no good because. How idiotic are they really I mean, the Earth isn't a sphere at all. Like we know that it's an oblate spheroid and that in and of itself is really interesting.
他们会希望我能更加蔑视平地球理论吗？是的，这可能可以实现。我知道有很多回应视频，它们处理了这一事件并支持平地球理论。但我不知道现在相比过去，是否存在更大的非传统思考群体。好的，我只是想不要失去他们。我想让他们继续听并思考。 calling them all idiots或类似的东西并不好，因为。他们是否真的是愚蠢的 I mean，地球并不是一个球。就像我们知道它是一个扁球，这本身非常有趣。
And I investigated that in which way is down where I'm like, really down does not point towards the center of the Earth. It points in different direction depending on what's underneath you and what's above you and what's around you. The whole universe is tugging on me. And then you also show that gravity is non uniform across the globe. Like if you just get thought experiment, if you build a bridge all the way in and all the way across the Earth and then just knock out its pillars, what would happen
我研究了哪种方向是向下的，但我认为向下并不是指向地球中心的方向。方向取决于下面是地核、上面是天还是周围是山。整个宇宙都在吸引着我。此外，你也证明了引力在全球范围内并不均匀。就像如果你想做一个思想实验，建造一条从地球一端到另一端的桥，然后破坏桥的支柱，会发生什么？
Yeah. And you describe how it would be like a very chaotic, unstable thing that's happening because gravity is non uniform throughout the Earth. Yeah. Yeah. In small spaces like the ones we work in, we can essentially assume that gravity is uniform, but it's not. It is weaker the further you are from the Earth and it also is going to be, it's radially pointed towards the middle of the Earth. So a really large object will feel tidal forces because of that non uniformness. And we can take advantage of that with satellites, right So it's a great way to align your satellite without having to use fuel or any kind of engine.
是的，你描述了这种情况会像是一个非常混乱、不稳定的东西，因为它发生在因为重力在整个地球均匀分布的情况下。是的，在我们工作的小空间中，我们可以几乎可以说是假设重力是均匀的，但它并不是。它随着你离地球的距离变弱，也会变弱，它向地球中心放射指向。所以一个非常大的物体会因为这种不均匀性感受到潮汐力。我们可以通过卫星利用这一点，所以这是一种很好的方式来对齐卫星，而不需要使用燃料或任何引擎。
So let's jump back to it. Artificial intelligence. What's your thought of the state of where we are at currently with artificial intelligence and what do you think it takes to build human level or superhuman level intelligence I don't know what intelligence means. That's my biggest question at the moment. And it's, I think it's because my instinct is always to go, well, what are the foundations here of our discussion What does it mean to be intelligent How do we measure the intelligence of an artificial machine or a program or something Can we say that humans are intelligent Because there's also a fascinating field of how do you measure human intelligence Of course.
所以让我们回到人工智能这个话题。你对于目前人工智能所处的状态有何想法？你认为构建人类水平或超人类水平智能需要什么？我不知道智慧是什么意思。目前是我的最大问题。我认为这是因为我的直觉总是倾向于问，那么我们的讨论的基础是什么？智慧意味着什么？如何测量机器或程序的智力？我们可以说人类是聪明的，因为还有一个令人着迷的问题，如何测量人类的智力。
But if we just take that for granted, saying that whatever this fuzzy intelligence thing we're talking about, humans kind of have it. What would be a good test for you So during develop a test, that's natural language conversation. Would that impress you A chat bot that you'd want to hang out and have a beer with for a bunch of hours or have dinner plans with Is that a good test Natural language conversation. Is there something else that would impress you or is that also too difficult to think about Oh yeah.
但是，如果我们只是假设这一点，说："无论我们讨论的这是什么模糊的智慧，人类kind of有它。你会喜欢怎样的测试？"所以，在开发测试时，这是自然语言对话。这是否会让你感到震惊？一个聊天机器人，你希望和他们一起度过几个小时，喝一杯啤酒，或者与他们共进晚餐。这是否是一个好的测试？自然语言对话。还有其它东西会让你感到震惊吗？还是这也太难以思考了？是的。
I'm pretty much impressed by everything. I think that if- Roomba If there was a chat bot that was like incredibly, I don't know, really had a personality and if I didn't be the turning test, right If I'm unable to tell that it's not another person, but then I was shown a bunch of wires and mechanical components and it was like, that's actually what you're talking to. I don't know if I would feel that guilty destroying it. I would feel guilty because clearly it's well-made and it's a really cool thing.
我几乎被所有事物所 impressed。我认为如果有一个非常神奇的聊天机器人，它真的具有个性，如果我不是一个测试者，它如果无法分辨它是否是一个人，但它展示了一堆电线和机械组件，它就像，这就是你正在与之交流的人。我不知道我会感觉多么愧疚去摧毁它。我会感觉愧疚，因为它显然非常制造良好，这是一个非常酷的东西。
It's like destroying a really cool car or something, but I would not feel like I was a murderer. So yeah, at what point would I start to feel that way And this is such a subjective psychological question. If you give it movement or if you have it act as though, or perhaps really feel pain as I destroy it and scream and resist, then I'd feel bad. Yeah, it's beautifully put. And let's just say act like it's a pain.
类似于摧毁一辆非常酷的车或者破坏某些东西，但是我不会感到我像是在谋杀。所以，我什么时候开始会这样感觉呢？这是一个非常主观的心理问题。如果你给它运动或者让它看起来好像，或者当我摧毁它、尖叫和抵抗时，它真正感到痛苦，那么我会感觉不好。是啊，这说得非常漂亮。让我们可以说，就像它感觉痛苦一样。
So if you just have a robot that not screams, just like moans in pain if you kick it, that immediately just puts it in a class that we humans, it becomes, we anthropomorphize it, it almost immediately becomes human. But that's a psychology question as opposed to sort of a physics question. Right. I think that's a really good instinct to have. If the robot screams and moans, even if you don't believe that it has the mental experience, the qualia of pain and suffering, I think it's still a good instinct to say, you know what, I'd rather not hurt it.
因此，如果有一台机器人，它不会尖叫，就像如果你踢它，它会呻吟一样，这立刻会将它归类为人类的一部分，我们人类会赋予它，我们将其拟人化，它几乎立即就会被视为人类。但是这是一个心理学问题，而不是物理学问题。对。我认为这是一个非常好的本能。即使机器人尖叫和呻吟，即使你不认为它拥有心理体验和痛苦体验的感知，我仍然认为这是一个好的本能，说，你知道吧，我更愿意不要伤害它。
The problem is that instinct can get us in trouble because then robots can manipulate that. And there's different kinds of robots. There's robots like the Facebook and the YouTube algorithm that recommends the video and they can manipulate in the same kind of way. Well, let me ask you just to stick on artificial intelligence for a second. Do you have worries about existential threats from AI or existential threats from other technologies like nuclear weapons that could potentially destroy life on earth or damage it to a very significant degree
问题就在于本能会让我们陷入麻烦，因为 then 机器人可以操纵。机器人有很多种，就像 Facebook 和 YouTube 推荐视频的机器人，它们也可以操纵以同样的方式。让我再问你一个问题，只是人工智能。你有对人工智能的生死威胁担忧吗，或者对其他技术，如核武器，可能毁灭地球或造成极其严重伤害的生死威胁担忧吗？
Yeah, of course I do. Especially the weapons that we create. There's all kinds of famous ways to think about this. And one is that, wow, what if we don't see advanced alien civilizations because of the danger of technology What if we reach a point, and I think there's a channel, Thotty2, geez, I wish I remembered the name of the channel, but he delves into this kind of limit of maybe once you discover radioactivity and its power, you've reached this important hurdle. And the reason that the skies are so empty is that no one's ever managed to survive as a civilization once they have that destructive power. And when it comes to AI, I'm not really very worried because I think that there are plenty of other people that are already worried enough. And oftentimes these worries are just, they just get in the way of progress. And they're questions that we should address later.
是的，我当然有。特别是我们创造的武器。有无数种方式思考这个问题。一种方式是，哇，如果我们看不到高级外星文明因为科技的危险，如果我们到达了一个点，比如 Thotty2，啊，我希望能记得这个频道的名字，但他总是深入这种极限，可能一旦你发现放射性并它的能力，你就到达了这个重要的障碍。天空如此空旷的原因是因为一旦拥有这种毁灭性力量，一个文明就无法生存作为一个文明。当涉及到人工智能时，我并不非常担心，因为我认为还有很多其他人已经担心得足够了。而且很多情况下，这些担忧只是，它们阻碍进展。它们是我们应该解决 later 的问题。
And I think I talk about this in my interview with the self-driving autonomous vehicle guy, as I think it was a bonus scene from the Trolley Problem episode. And I'm like, wow, what should a car do if this really weird contrived scenario happens where it has to swerve and save the driver but kill a kid And he's like, well, what would a human do And if we resist technological progress because we're worried about all of these little issues, then it gets in the way. And we shouldn't avoid those problems, but we shouldn't allow them to be stumbling blocks to advancement.
我认为我在与自动驾驶车辆那个人的面试中谈到了这个问题，因为我认为这段情节是《购物车问题》剧集的额外场景。我要说的是，如果这种情况发生，一辆汽车应该尽力避免造成伤亡，但它可能会挽救司机，但却杀害一名孩子。他问我，人类会怎么做？我说，如果因为担心这些问题而抵制技术进步，那么这些问题就会妨碍我们前进。我们不应该避免这些问题，但我们也不能让它们成为推动技术进步的障碍。
So the folks like Sam Harris or Elon Musk are saying that we're not worried enough. So worry should not paralyze technological progress, but we're sort of marching, technology is marching forward without the key scientists, the developing of technology, worrying about the overnight having some effects that would be very detrimental to society. So to push back on your thought of the idea that there's enough people worrying about it, Elon Musk says there's not enough people worrying about it.
所以像Sam Harris 或Elon Musk 这样的人们说，我们还不用足够担心。担心不应该阻碍技术进步，但我们似乎只是在前进，科技在没有关键科学家、技术开发和担心一夜之间可能带来非常不利社会后果的情况下前进。所以你想反对人们对担心技术发展足够的人数量的看法吗？Elon Musk 表示没有足够的人担心这个问题。
So that's the kind of balance is, you know, it's like folks who are really focused on nuclear deterrence are saying there's not enough people worried about nuclear deterrence, right So it's an interesting question of what is a good threshold of people to worry about these And if it's too many people that are worried, you're right, it'll be like the press would overreport on it and there'll be technological, halt technology progress. If not enough, then we can march straight ahead into that abyss that human beings might be destined for with the progress of technology.
所以这种平衡就是，你知道的，那些真正关注核威慑的人说的是，没有足够的人担心核威慑，这是有趣的问题，人们应该有多少担心这些才好呢？如果担心的人太多，你是正确的，这将像媒体会过度报道一样，导致技术停滞，阻碍技术的进步。如果还不够，那么我们可以继续前进，迈向人类与技术进步不可避免的深渊。
Yeah, I don't know what the right balance is of how many people should be worried and how worried should they be. But we're always worried about new technology. We know that Plato was worried about the written word. He's like, we shouldn't teach people to write because then they won't use their minds to remember things. There have been concerns over technology and its advancement since the beginning of recorded history.
是的，我不知道应该让多少人感到担忧，以及应该让他们多么担忧。但我们总是对新科技感到担忧。我们知道柏拉图会对书写感到担忧。他好像是说，不应该教授人们书写，因为这样他们就会不使用他们的大脑来记住事情。自记录历史的开始以来，我们就对科技的发展和进步产生了担忧。
And so, you know, I think, however, these conversations are really important to have because, again, we learn a lot about ourselves. If we're really scared of some kind of AI, like coming into being that is conscious or whatever and can self replicate. We already do that every day. It's called humans being born. They're not artificial. They're humans, but they're intelligent. And I don't want to live in a world where we're worried about babies being born because what if they become evil Right. What if they become mean people What if they what if they're thieves Maybe we should just like what not have babies born Maybe we shouldn't create AI. It's like,
因此，你知道，这些对话真的非常重要，因为，再次来说，我们学到了很多东西。如果我们真的害怕某种类型的人工智能，比如诞生出具有自我意识或某种能力的自我复制体。我们每天都这样做。这被称为人类的出生。他们不是机器。他们是人类，但他们是聪明的。我不想生活在一个我们担心婴儿诞生的世界里。如果它们变得邪恶。如果它们成为坏人。如果它们成为小偷。或许我们最好只是不要出生婴儿。或许我们不应该创建人工智能。它就像，
you know, we will want to have safeguards in place in the same way that we know. Look, a kid could be born that becomes some kind of evil person, but we have laws. Right. And it's possible that with advanced genetics in general, be able to, you know, it's a scary thought to say that, you know, this my child. If born would be would have an 83 percent chance of being a psychopath. Right. Like being able to if it's something genetic, if there's some sort of and what to use that information, what to do with that information is a difficult ethical.
你知道的，我们需要采取与我们知道的方式相同的 safeguard。毕竟，一个小孩可能会出生成为一个邪恶的人，但我们有法律。是的。此外，在一般遗传的情况下，可能有能力，你知道，这是一个可怕的想法，说，嘿，这是我的孩子。如果出生的话，它可能会有83%的机会成为一个Psychopath。是的。就像能力，如果这是遗传的，如果有一些信息，以及如何处理这些信息，如何处理这些信息是困难的伦理。
Yeah, I'd like to find an answer that isn't well, let's not have them live. You know, I'd like to find an answer that is, well, all human life is worthy. And if you have an 83 percent chance of becoming a psychopath, well. You still deserve dignity. Yeah, and you still deserve to be treated. Well, and you still have rights, at least at this part of the world, at least in America, there's a respect for individual life in that way. That's well to me. But again, I'm in this bubble is a beautiful thing.
是的，我想要找到一条不可行的答案，让这些人不再活着。你知道，我想要找到一条答案，那就是，所有人类生命都值得珍视。如果你只有83%的机会成为神经症患者， still，你仍然值得拥有尊严。是的，你仍然值得拥有待遇。至少在这个世界上的这一部分，至少在美国，珍视个人生命的方式就是这样。对我来说，这是美好的。但是 again，我在这个泡沫中感到的幸福是不同的。
But there's other cultures where individual human life is not that important, where a society. So I was born in Soviet Union, where the strength of nation and society together is more important than the one particular individual. So it's an interesting also notion. The stories we tell ourselves. I like the one where individuals matter, but it's unclear that that was what the future holds. Well, yeah. And I mean, let me even throw this out. Like, what is artificial intelligence How can it be artificial I really think that we get pretty obsessed and stuck on the idea that there is some thing that is a wild human, a pure human organism without technology.
但也有其他文化，那里的个人生命并不是那么的重要，而是社会的一部分。所以我出生于苏联，在那里，国家和整个社会的力量比单个个人更为重要。这是一个有趣的概念。也是我们给自己讲述的故事。我喜欢那个故事，讲述个人的重要性，但未来是否就是这样，还是未知数。嗯，是的。我甚至想，谈谈人工智能，它如何可以被视为人工的。我真正认为，我们变得非常沉迷于和固执于某些想法，比如是否存在一个Wild human，一个纯粹的人类生命体，没有科技的帮助。
But I don't think that's a real thing. I think that humans and human technology are one organism. Look at my glasses. OK, if an alien came down and saw me, would they necessarily know that this is an invention, that I don't grow these organically from my body They wouldn't know that right away. And the written word and spoons and cups, these are all pieces of technology. We are not alone as an organism.
但我不认为那是真实的。我认为人类和人类技术是一体的。看看我的眼镜。当然，如果外星人来到地球并看到我，他们是否一定知道这是一项发明，我不认为他们马上会知道。文字、勺子和杯子都是技术的一部分。作为一个整体，我们不是孤独的。
And so the technology we create, whether it be video games or artificial intelligence that can self replicate and hate us, it's actually all the same organism. When you're in a car, where do you end in the car Again, it seems like a really easy question to answer. But the more you think about it, the more you realize, wow, we are in this symbiotic relationship with our inventions.
因此我们创造的技术，无论是游戏还是能够自我复制并恨我们的人工智能，其实都属于同一个生命体。当你驾车时，你会去哪里？这看起来好像是一个非常简单的问题，但一旦你思考这个问题，你就会意识到，哇，我们和我们的创造力之间存在着一种共生关系。
And there are plenty of people who are worried about it and there should be. But it's it's inevitable. And I think that even just us think of ourselves as individual individual intelligences may be silly notion because it's much better to think of the entirety of human civilization, living, all living organs on earth is a single living organism. Right. As a single intelligent creature, because you're right. Everything's intertwined. Everything is deeply connected.
许多人担心这个问题，这是必然的。但我认为，甚至只是我们认为自己是个人独立的智能可能都是一种愚蠢的观念，因为更应该把人类文明、地球上所有生命器官看作一个整体，就像是一个单一的生命体一样。对，就像一个人。因为对。一切都被交织在一起。一切都紧密相连。
So we mentioned Elon Musk. So you're a curious lover of science. What do you think of the efforts that Elon Musk is doing with space exploration, with electric vehicles, with autopilot, sort of getting into the space of autonomous vehicles, with boring under L.A. and Neuralink trying to communicate brain machine interfaces, communicate between machines and human brains. Well, it's really inspiring. I mean, look at the the fandom that he's amassed. It's it's not common for someone like that to have such a following. And so engineering nerd.
所以我们提到了马斯克。你是一位对科学充满好奇的爱好者。你如何看待马斯克在太空探索、电动汽车、自动驾驶、甚至有点像进入自主车辆领域的努力？他在LA的实验室以及神经ink试图建立脑机接口以及机器和人类大脑之间的沟通，都让人们感到振奋。这种激励不仅来自他的粉丝数量，而是来自他的工作让人们意识到科学可以如此令人兴奋和令人敬畏。
Yeah. So it's really it's really exciting. But I also think that a lot of responsibility comes with that kind of power. So if I met him, I would love to hear how he feels about the responsibility he has. When when there are people who are such a fan of your ideas and your dreams and share them so closely with you, you have a lot of power and he didn't always have that. You know, he wasn't born as Elon Musk. Well, he was. But well, he was named that later. But the point is that that that I want to know the psychology of becoming a figure like him.
是的，这非常令人兴奋。但我也认为拥有这种权力的同时也意味着很多责任。所以如果我能遇见他，我很期待听到他对承担责任的看法。当你有一群支持者，他们非常喜欢你的思想和梦想，并与你分享这些想法时，你拥有很多权力，但他并不是一直都拥有这样的权力。你知道，他并不是像马斯克这样的名字，他是真正的名字。但我想说的是，我想了解成为像他这样的人物的心理。
Well, I don't even know how to phrase the question right. But it's a question about what do you do when you're you're following your fans become so, you know, large that it's almost bigger than you. And how do you how do you responsibly manage that And maybe it doesn't worry him at all. And that's fine, too. But I'd be really curious. And I think there are a lot of people that go through this when they realize, whoa, there are a lot of eyes on me. There are a lot of people who really take what I say very earnestly and and take it to heart and will defend me.
Well，我甚至不知道该如何表述问题。但这是关于你如何应对你的粉丝变得如此巨大，几乎比你自己还要大的情况。你如何管理和应对这种情况，也许他并没有任何担心。这也没问题。但我会非常好奇。我认为有很多的人都经历过这种情况，当他们意识到有很多眼睛盯着他们。有很多的人都认真地听取我说的话，并会支持我。
And who that's that's. That that can be dangerous. And and you have to be responsible with it, both in terms of impact on society and psychologically for the individual, just just the the burden psychologically on on the on. Yeah. Yeah. How does he how does he think about that part of his his persona Well, let me throw that right back at you, because in some ways you're just a funny guy. That got in a humongous following, a funny guy with a curiosity. You got a huge following.
那个人是谁？那可能危险。你有责任对社会和对个人负责，既要影响社会，也要对个体的心理造成伤害，只是这种负担对个体来说可能非常沉重。是的。他如何看待他的角色这一部分？嗯，让我再次向你展示一遍，因为在某种程度上，你只是一个有趣的人物。你赢得了大量的粉丝，一个有趣的人物，一个充满好奇心的人物。你赢得了大量的粉丝。
How do you psychologically deal with the responsibility In many ways, you have a reach in many ways bigger than Elon Musk. What is your. What is the burden that you feel in educating being one of the biggest educators in the world where everybody is listening to you and actually everybody like most of the world that uses YouTube for education material, trust you as a source of good, strong scientific thinking. It's a burden and I try to approach it with a lot of. Humility and sharing like I'm not out there doing a lot of scientific experiments. I am sharing the work of real scientists and I'm celebrating their work and the way that they think and the power of curiosity.
如何心理面对责任？在许多方面，你的影响力比Elon Musk更大。你有什么负担？你在教育世界最伟大的教育家之一时感到的压力是什么？就像大多数人使用YouTube作为教育材料一样，信任你作为一个良好的来源，并欣赏你的科学思维。这是一个负担，我尝试以许多方式对待它。表现出谦虚和分享，就像我并不要进行大量的科学实验一样，我分享真正的科学家的工作，并庆祝他们的思想和他们的好奇心的力量。
