现代京族的真面目

2020-09-22 21:14 作者:北青衫 0人读过 | 我要投稿

现代京族的真面目

难得啊, 难得啊, 这次我们和 weibo 上被骂翻天的 @越南服装即Kiet T Tran 达成一致的意见, 说明这是一个公认的观点.

介绍 :

这是一个鸠占鹊巢的故事, 越南的历史叙事是安南人反抗中原的历史, 但是这里给出了另一种历史叙事, 我希望大家冷静点, 反省下现在越南文化的核心是 Muong文化还是中原文化.

没有比越南人更了解越南人, 我看了越南和欧美学者的文章后, 细思极恐, 而且最可怕的是很多越南人明明知道不说出来, 故意占东亚人便宜.

我们来看看越南的教科书 The Truyện Thạch Sanh 石生新傳 , 这画风不对啊

我们我看看越南的老照片, 怎么平民穿成这样, 越南东京人怎么穿成这样

zhihu.com/question/49498664/answer/1479991917

问题描述

越南民族本来是多来源的。很多越南早期统治者、移民，来自中原或汉语汉族地区。但是越南早期文化汉化的各地本土定居多数人口，很多史书提出应该是侗台语系的语言。

但是，为什么越南语现在是一个南亚语系（类似高棉、芒）的语言？早期各地多元的汉、侗台各族是在哪一年同化为一个说南亚语系语言的“越南”民族的？什么历史实践导致了这个民族同化过程？

答案大意

京族基本上接受了北方的统治，红河三角洲，甚至南方的清化、乂安都已经趋于平静，但是Trai族却不接受，Trai族，在后来被称作芒族，而黎利和他的支持者，大多都是芒族。事实上，在古交州，交趾地区是比较拥护明朝的，不稳定的更多在九真，只能说可惜了好圣孙。

明入越的失败，在地理上肇始于蓝山起义，蓝山起义迅速席卷了Ca River，即蓝江，蓝江在清化以南，主要流经乂安。在当时，蓝江流域的主要居民还是芒族（后来下游的芒族逐渐京化），黎利正是以芒族大本营作为基地，最终实现了翻盘。蓝山起义图和越南的民族分布图，标红的是蓝山起义最初席卷之地，蓝色为蓝江。可见蓝山起义之地与芒族分布高度重合。

本文也参照了一些Quora上越南人的回答，包括而不限于以下链接，其中，最有价值的，便是给中文网络补充了此前基本没有的黎利是芒族这个信息吧，但越南人，甚至欧美的越南史研究者，都是知道这点的。

越南红河流域的居民换了一次血了, 现在是 Muong 族的天下

原帖请看知乎上的这个答案, 但是有些细节写的不清楚

文章翻译的大意

明入越得到低地的红河流域的京族(1.0版本)广泛支持, 但是高地区域蓝山附近的京族, Thai 族被Muong 族同化了, 具有 Muong 特征的蓝山居民是反明的主力.

明朝对自愿留守越南的明军的没有提供强制性的补偿, 明军大体上没有留守越南的意愿.

趁着明朝撤军期间, 野性十足的 Muong 族领导人黎利从乂安和清化攻打低地受中国文化影响强烈的低地京族京族(1.0版本), 然后占领了越南全境.

黎利宽宏大量的把被俘的明朝将士用船和补给送回中国, 但是京族女人和中国男人落在越南混血儿, 还有占人, Cẩu Hiểm, 老挝人, 还有和明军合作越南本地人被黎利政府贬为奴隶.

种族清洗后是大规模的文化上的 Muong 化和去汉化, 高地的 Muong 涌入红河流域, 越南的居民开始说一种 Muong 相关的语言, 继承 Muong 核心文化, 占据红河流域后, 现代京族(2.0版本)诞生了.

我希望大家有空收集下下 Muong 族和还有高地民族的资料, 这才是越南研究的重点, 这是一个highland 国家.

翻译

鄙人自知才识浅薄, 如果语义语境错误, 烦请指正, 括号部分是鄙人的附加说明

转载请附上如下原文链接

alchetron.com/Lam-S%C6%A1n-uprising

Lam Sơn rebel victory, Independence of Đại Việt under the Later Lê Dynasty

蓝山起义的胜利, 后黎朝时代大越的独立

The Lam Sơn uprising (Khởi nghĩa Lam Sơn) was the uprising led by Lê Lợi in Vietnam of 1418-1427 against Ming rule.

蓝山起义是黎利(Lê Lợi)领导的越南反明起义(1418-1427)

The Ming were backed by a lot of Red River plain dwelling ethnic Kinh Vietnamese while it was the frontier dwelling ethnic minority Trai people who were the origin of the anti-Ming rebels and Le Loi himself.

明朝获得大量的红河流域京族居民支持, 然而前线地带的少数民族居民Trai族是反明叛乱的来源, 包括黎利他自己.

There was no mandatory required reparation of the voluntarily remaining Ming Chinese in Vietnam.

那时候, 没有强制要求给自愿留守越南明人的提供补偿. (言外之意, 留守越南的明军捞不到额外的好处, 还不如回国)

The return of the Ming Chinese to China was commanded by the Ming and not Le Loi. The Trai made up the supporters of Le Loi in his campaign.

明人撤回中国是明朝而不是黎利下令的, Trai 族组成了黎利阵营的主要支持者.

He lived among the Trai at the border regions as their leader and seized the Ming ruled lowland Kinh areas after originally forming his base in the southern highland regions. The southern dwelling Trai and Red River dwelling Vietnamese were in effect locked in a "civil war" during the anti Ming rebellion by Le Loi.

他和 Trai族一起在边境区域生活, 作为 Trai族的领导人, 起初, 在南方的高地区域建立了根据地之后, 他夺取了明朝治下的低地京族区域. 在黎利领导的反明叛乱期间, 实际上, 南方高地的居民和红河流域的京人陷入内战之中.

The Trai are also known as the Muong who are highlanders.

Trai族作为高地居民, 也被称为 Muong族,

A Muong origin has been ascribed by historians to Le Loi. Clumsy Han Nom transcriptions of names like "Shoes", "Liar", "Tongue", "animal", "shabby", "Skin" and Dog" among Le Loi's supporters indicate a non Vietnamese background.

历史学家认为黎利具有 Muong 族的出身, 在黎利的支持者中, 用不得体的汉喃翻译他的名字, 比如 "鞋子", "骗子", "舌头", "动物", "下流的", "皮肤"(skin 作为动词也有欺骗的意思) 和 "狗" 揭示了他的非京人的背景 (黎利的支持者可能喜欢这么野性十足的名字)

They invaded the Red River area from their original home base of Nghe An and Thanh Hoa. It was said that Le Loi was a barbarian amongst barbarians in texts from China in the 1500s.

他们从乂安省(Nghe An)和清化(Thanh Hoa) 的家乡初始根据地入侵了红河流域, 15世纪的时候, 据说根据中国的文献, 黎利是野蛮人里面的野蛮人.

A Muong character dominated over the Vietnamese in Lam son around the river Chu and Tai, Muong, and Vietnamese according to Emile Gaspardone all lived in Tay-kinh in Lam son which was the origin of the Le rebels. Both Trai and Kinh resided near Tay Do in Mount Lam which was the origin of Le Loi. Muont Lam was the origin of the uprising.

Chu河附近的蓝山京族居民, 连同 Tai族, Muong族, Muong族特征主导了他们, 还有根据Emile Gaspardone 的说法, 所有住在蓝山 Tay-kinh的京族都是黎利叛乱的根源

住在蓝山Tay Do附近的 Trai族和京族是黎利的出身, 蓝山是起义的根源.

(这里的语法有点乱, 我不知道有没有说错, 蓝山附近的各民族包括京族都有Muong族的特征, 大意是京族和 Tai 族都被 Muong 化了, Muong 化的整个蓝山是起义的根源)

Anti Ming sentiment came from the southern highland areas of Nghe An and Thanh Hoa while the same province's lowland areas were pro-Ming as were the Red River inhabitants. Anti Ming rebellion happened among the southern Trai people. The Muong were called Trai while the ethnic Vietnamese were called Kinh during the Tran dynasty.

反明情绪来自乂安省(Nghe An)和清化(Thanh Hoa)的南方高地区域 ,然而作为同省的低地区域的红河流域的居民却是非常亲明的, 反明叛乱出现在南方的Trai族中, 在陈朝(1225~1400)的时候, Muong 族被称为Trai 然而越南人(这里指的是低地区域的居民)被称为京族

There was a mix of Trai and Kinh in the area of Mount Lam where Le Loi originated.

黎利出生在蓝山京族和 Trai 族混血的地方

Trần Quý Khoáng counted Le Loi among one of his partisans. The Ming received an oath of loyalty from Le Loi in 1413. The Ming launched an assault against Le Loi after the Ming were told he was an insurrectionary by one of his rivals.

重光帝 (Trùng Quang Đế)把黎利当成他的党羽中的一员, 1413年明朝从黎利收到一份效忠的誓约, 在明朝被他的一个对手告诉他是起义者之后, 明朝发动了针对黎利的攻击

The Muong people were given the name of outpost (Trai) while the ethnic Kinh Vietnamese living in the lowlands in the Ca and Ma region who were named afer the Hanoi capital area were influenced significantly by Chinese language when the Red River areas was heavily inhabited by Sinophones during the original period of Chinese rule.

Muong 族被命名为Trai(边区), 然而居住在Ca 和 Ma 区域低地的京族越南人以河内首都命名, 在起初中国统治期间, 大量的说汉语的人口住在红河流域, 河内首都也受到汉语的巨大影响

(outpost: a remote part of a country or empire. 一个帝国和国家遥远的地方; 京就是首都的意思)

The Tran dynasty had used the label of Trai for the inhabitants of Ha Tinh, Nghe An, and Thanh Hoa n the south while they gave the label of Kinh to the inhabitants of the red River area in 1256.

1256年, 陈朝使用Trai 作为南方的Ha Tinh, Nghe An, and Thanh Hoa 居民的称谓, 然而他们给红河流域的居民京族称谓.

The decisive battle was the Battle of Tốt Động – Chúc Động in 1426, after which the Ming Dynasty eventually had to concede defeat by 1428.

决定性的战争是1426年的崒洞祝洞之战, 之后明朝终于不得不在1428年之前承认战败

Rather than putting to death the captured Ming soldiers and administrators, he magnanimously provided ships and supplies to send them back to China. Le Loi then ascended the Vietnamese throne, taking the reign name Le Thai To and establishing the Le dynasty (1428-1788).

他宽宏大量的把被俘的明朝将士用船和补给送回中国, 而不是处死他们, 然后黎利即位了, 使用黎太祖作为统治名字, 然后建立了黎朝(1428-1788)

(这里有个问题,应该是后人称黎利为黎太祖 ,而不是黎利取这个名字即位, 我不懂越南历史, 有朋友知道的可以指正下)

The Muong were the majority of the rebels against the Ming who served Le Loi. Muong was the ethnicity of Le Loi.

Muong 族是为黎利效力的的反明叛军主体, Muong 族是黎利的族裔

Up to 1427 the Ming were served by loyalist Vietnamese collaborators who could read Chinese and who were subjected to propaganda from Nguyen Trai who worked with Le Loi.

直到1427年, 明朝被忠诚的京族合作者效力, 他们能阅读汉语, 反对来自和黎利协作的阮廌的政治宣传

It was recorded that the union of Vietnamese women and Chinese (Ngô) men produced offspring which were left behind in Vietnam, and the Chams, Cẩu Hiểm, Laotians, these people, and Vietnamese natives who collaborated with the Ming were made into slaves of the Le government in the Complete Annals of Đại Việt.

根据大越史记全书(the Complete Annals of Đại Việt)记载, 京族女人和中国男人联合(通婚)生下的被留在越南的后代, 还有占人, Cẩu Hiểm, 老挝人, 还有和明军合作越南本地人被黎利政府贬为奴隶

The leader Lưu Bác Công (Liu Bogong) in 1437 commanded a Dai Viet military squad made out of ethnic Chinese since even after the independnece of Dai Viet, Chinese remained behind.

1437年, 因为即便在大越独立后, 中国人仍然被落在越南, 一个领导人Liu Bogong 命令一个大越军队把华裔救出来.

高地民族风俗赏析

欲了解京族(2.0版本)文化, 先了解 Muong 高地文化

prints-online.com/vietnam-muong-people-7157799.html

Muong 族肖像

Vietnam - Warriors of the Muong People from the Hoa Binh Province and the mountainous districts of Thanh Hoa Province in the north of the country. Date: circa 1910s

越南北方, 来自Hoa Binh省和Thanh Hoa省山区的 Muong 战士.

为什么越南要强调东山铜鼓, 看看 Muong 族的手鼓